Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 >From Vicki: Suppose there is a hill. There will be many paths to climb it. If he were to ask people to climb by the way he came , some may like it and some may not. If people who do not like it are asked to climb by that path only, they will not be able to come up. Hence a jnani helps people following any particular path whatever it may be. People who are midway may not know about the merits and demerits of other paths, but one who has climbed to the summit and sits there observing others coming up is able to see all the paths. He will therefore be able to tell people who are coming up to move a little to this side or that or to avoid a pitfall. The goal is the same for all. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BE AS YOU ARE, The Teachings of Ramana Maharshi edited by David Godman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Vicki, Thanks for that :-) One of the great dangers of the path is to believe one is at the summit when one has done little more than found (however profound)a ledge. This is one of the reasons why we acknowledge teachers (there is always someone ahead). When we start to pronounce on what is right, we have been seduced by the belief that God has a voice or a spoken truth. The Truth is something fluid, sometimes it shines sometimes it is Lucifer (the shining one - the Beautiful Angel) sometimes, all times it moves people beyond where they are. If you are happy where you are that is OK. It depends on whether perfection is arrived at or arriving . . . The things you once believed were true the things you will believe are true. Of course you do not have to believe that and that too is true . . . Lobster eXXo- Beyond Belief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Yes, having at least half a brain is always good! :-) Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Q: How does a shtitaprajna* recognize himself as such? Is it by knowing the fullness of his enlightenment or is it by cessation of objective awareness ? A: In the firm , natural state , through that Supreme Silence free from all vasanas , the jnani knows himself as such without any doubt.(Maharshi) * sthitaprajna = one of steadfast knowledge ```````````````` Sri Ramana Gita Hi Vicki, Doubtless a person without any doubts is something that appeals. Spiritual confidence! 'I know who I am and what I am doing', type of attitude. Most of us would be 'proud' (oops) to be like that. Perhaps such steadfastness is a manifestation of arrival and according to some philosophies (mahamudra and dzogchen and Sufi philosophy that recognises at least five stages beyond enlightenment and Zen which also classifies depth of realisation) a condition of enlightenment and certainty just like that of pre-arrival and uncertainty is part of a duality. Enlightenment and Samsara are seen as dualistic and partial experiences. If the confidence of 'the Enlightened' moves one into a preferred understanding then this is good. Believing one has arrived at completion and certainty is then something that no longer arises. For the knowing of Self is without doubt without end. What is called the fullness of Enlightenment is an empty experience like all others. Still the sun shines and the day is born anew . . . Day Light Lobster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 Namaste All, For a jnani there is only one path, which ultimately is no path..ONS Tony. , "vicki" <viorica@z...> wrote: > hi Lobster, > a true Master and a true aspirant will always > recognize each other. > no doubt about that. > vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 , "vicki" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > "The Master is within ; meditation is meant to remove > the ignorant idea that he is only outside. ******* Yes, meditation, the 'ol nickle drop trick! :-) Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 On 4/25/01 at 5:59 PM judirhodes wrote: º, "vicki" <viorica@z...> wrote: º> º> "The Master is within ; meditation is meant to remove º> the ignorant idea that he is only outside. º º******* Yes, meditation, the 'ol nickle drop trick! :-) º ºJudi The quote could be appropriate when K. is active: then, it will be possible to "feel" there isn't a difference whether or not in the presence of one fully awake. But as long as the difference is felt, it is belief. And Ramana used to say "I am not the body" quite a few times - which didn't prevent seekers and disciples from visiting. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 Indeed: There is only the path that Socrates and the Oracle of Delphi called "Know thyself" ... And that path necessarily becomes simultaneously the studier, the studied, and the studying ... At which point, there is "opening", yet no path in sight ... Namaste, Dan Namaste All, For a jnani there is only one path, which ultimately is no path..ONS Tony. , "vicki" <viorica@z...> wrote: > hi Lobster, > a true Master and a true aspirant will always > recognize each other. > no doubt about that. > vicki Sponsor /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and normal mode. Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 , "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: > On 4/25/01 at 5:59 PM judirhodes@e... wrote: > > º, "vicki" <viorica@z...> wrote: > º> > º> "The Master is within ; meditation is meant to remove > º> the ignorant idea that he is only outside. > º > º******* Yes, meditation, the 'ol nickle drop trick! :-) > º > ºJudi > > The quote could be appropriate when K. is active: then, it will be possible to "feel" > there isn't a difference whether or not in the presence of one fully awake. > But as long as the difference is felt, it is belief. And Ramana used to say "I am > not the body" quite a few times - which didn't prevent seekers and disciples > from visiting. > ********** LOL! What a scream! :-)) Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 On 4/25/01 at 10:14 PM judirhodes wrote: º, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: [...] .. º> But as long as the difference is felt, it is belief. And Ramana used ºto say "I am º> not the body" quite a few times - which didn't prevent seekers and ºdisciples º> from visiting. º> º º********** LOL! What a scream! :-)) º ºJudi It is funny - of course there were those for whom Grace was ever present since the first visit to Ramana and then, there were those, discovering that after his physically passing away. The point is, when "at the end of the rope", Grace will strike whenever, wherever - it could be called "extreme" and it is rare. The other extreme is, when starting to feel Grace after repeated visits and some talks to remove doubts. Those "gradual converts" are likely to do the writing - like for instance Paul Brunton. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 , "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: > On 4/25/01 at 10:14 PM judirhodes@e... wrote: > > º, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: > [...] > . > º> But as long as the difference is felt, it is belief. And Ramana used > ºto say "I am > º> not the body" quite a few times - which didn't prevent seekers and > ºdisciples > º> from visiting. > º> > º > º********** LOL! What a scream! :-)) > º > ºJudi > > It is funny - of course there were those for whom Grace was > ever present since the first visit to Ramana and then, there were those, > discovering that after his physically passing away. > The point is, when "at the end of the rope", Grace will strike > whenever, wherever - it could be called "extreme" and it is rare. > The other extreme is, when starting to feel Grace after repeated visits > and some talks to remove doubts. Those "gradual converts" are likely > to do the writing - like for instance Paul Brunton. > ****** Oh Lord, save me from the gradual converts. :-) lol Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 On 4/25/01 at 11:22 PM judirhodes wrote: [...]º****** Oh Lord, save me from the gradual converts. :-) lol º ºJudi You can't be saved twice Jann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 , "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: > On 4/25/01 at 11:22 PM judirhodes@e... wrote: > > [...]º****** Oh Lord, save me from the gradual converts. :-) lol > º > ºJudi > > You can't be saved twice > > Jann ***** Damn! :-) Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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