Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 , "vicki" <viorica@z...> wrote: > D: Can everybody see God ? > B: Yes. > D: Can I see God? > B: Yes. > D: Who is my guide to see God? > Do I need a guide? > B: Who was your guide to Ramanasramam ? > With whose guidance do you see the world daily? > Just as you are able to see the world yourself > so also you will be able to see your Self if you > earnestly strive to do so , your Self alone > being your guide in that quest. > Namaste Vicki et al, There is no God, God is dead as soon as one realises the self. God is a concept, that's all. It is none other than one's own higher self. God is another way of describing Saguna Brahman that's all, a concept to describe and illusion. Om Namah Sivaya.....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 On 4/26/01 at 11:12 PM Tony O'Clery wrote: [...] ºNamaste Vicki et al, º ºThere is no God, God is dead as soon as one realises the self. God is ºa concept, that's all. It is none other than one's own higher self. ºGod is another way of describing Saguna Brahman that's all, a concept ºto describe and illusion. º ºOm Namah Sivaya.....Tony. Thanks for the laugh Tony - please let me help: ºThere is no self, self is dead as soon as one realises God. Self is ºa concept, that's all. [...] Somewhere there has to be a quote to "acknowledge" that... Joy, laughter and humor, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2001 Report Share Posted April 27, 2001 Dear Tony, Looking for a way out? No moksha Not needing to look for a way out anymore? Moksha. This is it, There is no more than this. Nothing to question, Nothing to learn, Nothing to understand. Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2001 Report Share Posted April 27, 2001 Namaste Vicki, Even Ramana's 'I am', is God, is ultimately an illusion, for he is talking of the 'Big I Am' ie Saguna Brahman. So the Self is an attribute, and at the same time a generic term. God as a concept is strictly Saguna. Of course we are talking about a step are we not? For becoming a jivanmukti means dropping all illusion on death. Moving to a Nirguna State, without any connection at all. Lets see how this one works its way out. Om Namah Sivaya. , "vicki" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > "God is Guru is Self." > *** > "The Self is God. "I am" is God."(Maharshi) > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Namaste Vicki et al, > > There is no God, God is dead as soon as one realises the self. God is > a concept, that's all. It is none other than one's own higher self. > God is another way of describing Saguna Brahman that's all, a concept > to describe and illusion. > > Om Namah Sivaya.....Tony. > > > > Sponsor > > > > > /join > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2001 Report Share Posted April 27, 2001 Dear Tony, You wrote: > Talking from a dwaitic point of view perhaps but from an advaitic > point of view this is all a dream that never happened. There is no > beginning to it but there can be an end.....Realisation/Moksha. What do you know yourself Tony, really know? And besides, have you ever attempted to answer the question: " Who am I?" without words, without thoughts... but with your physical faculties..., the full conglomerate of being. There is no point of view... Tony, 'no dualist', no 'non-dual' point of view. In 'viewpoints' nothing is really viewed, nothing is really seen with your own real eyes, nothing is pointed at or touched with your own real fingers... Get to your senses, Tony.... Come to your senses... When you finally un-inhibited and fully sense again, will you overcome the 'erroneous' idea of separation... You will fall into oneness, you will fall in love... Your senses are NOT in the way, your per-ceptions ARE NOT in the way, con-ceptions ARE. (Btw, concepts are never our own...) Senses are the only means to re-discover and re-cognize oneness... And Senses are so lovely to enjoy in playful, mutual and reciprocal celebration. Why the fear... who put that in you? (Btw, fear is never our own... it is instilled in us) Eventually your senses will be so fine-tuned... you will per-ceive without any doubt at all the epiphany of unquestioned validity of being, the given, the human / divine condition, the graces, the gifts that we are to one-another. All that is... Playful, timely and spacely representations of this all & one Per-ceive and re-ceive the full subtlety of unity/diversity at once Receive... recapture. Holding your love again within and without. Ah, the lostness in love, when the aberrated mind does not interfere with senses anymore, Absolute self-evidence of being. you feel you touch you see you taste you hear at once Ah, the senses... There is actually no other way, Tony... you man with a body, a tongue, fingers, skin, lips, a heart, who eats and walks and can snap his fingers. It is that simple... believe your eyes, etc... believe yourself, trust me... it works. Believe not your mind's eye, the speculations mirrored to you from afar, blinding your real eyes, the mind become the mirage. The mind is not really that, but has become that. Whatever your mind comes up with now, whatever understanding it seems to offer... it is in error. There is nothing to understand... not even me... Life is direct, acute, immediate.... when you come to, coming to your senses... Is that the problem perchance? Were you kicked out of that immediacy? Were you made to lose touch... What did the perpetrators do to you? Do not be held back, inside that mental vicious circle., the mind forever on an errand. Get out in nature bodily, touch something, plant seeds, swim, do some art, work with clay, paint, sing, play an instrument, belly dance... You will eventually sing, dance and be oneness. You will lose your separated self in intense and heightened being. You will accept that you are Tony, with a body for starters, living on earth in an environment that calls for love, inviting you to join (yoga) into oneness... Play, Tony, play again.... man. Play, the only way to overcome separation. Viewpoints are only in the mind's pseudo power of illusiveness, its ability of making things up into mental constructs...so that reality can be escaped. The mind is not supposed to do that, but the traumatized person has been forced to ab-use the mind that way. Tell me of real physical traumas that happened to you, physical situations that were terrifying and appeared or were made to appear physically inescapable, until your mind found a pseudo way out... escapism. Advaita is not escapism. The way you understand advaita is an attempt to escape mentally. Why would you, you are doing that already... You actually do not know that, that is why I tell you. Points of view are purely a mental posturing, something we think up to get away with not having to face reality..., look it in the face, take it in the hands, walk through it... Love, Tony, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2001 Report Share Posted April 27, 2001 Namaste Wim. Talking from a dwaitic point of view perhaps but from an advaitic point of view this is all a dream that never happened. There is no beginning to it but there can be an end.....Realisation/Moksha. Om Namah Sivaya... , "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphere@h...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > Looking for a way out? No moksha > Not needing to look for a way out anymore? Moksha. > > This is it, > There is no more than this. > Nothing to question, > Nothing to learn, > Nothing to understand. > > Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2001 Report Share Posted April 27, 2001 , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > Namaste Wim. > > Talking from a dwaitic point of view perhaps but from an advaitic > point of view this is all a dream that never happened. There is no > beginning to it but there can be an end.....Realisation/Moksha. > > Om Namah Sivaya...Tony Wouldn't that end be *now*? The end is here! The end is here! The End, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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