Joy of Body .. Joyce

[Guest guest]

At 02:15 AM 28/04/01, you wrote:

>Hi Christopher,

>

>Well, to begin with, the previous post re "body" came up relative to the

>views expressed in Advaita (Astavakra Samhita) in reference to the

>experience of the true man of Self-knowledge. And here the reference was to

>'attachment' to the material as mis-identification. "I" am my body.

 

I am not my body,

but my body is the manifestation

of who I consciously and unconsciously

believe and think I am

 

However, my thoughts are the product

of my body ..

> > but you forget several things ...

>

>Nope. Astavakra seems to have "forgotten" them, wonder why.

 

There are other texts (especially some of the Tantra) which go

into the physiology of the thought-thinking-creating process ..

> >

> > The material that does the thinking is composed of exactly the same

> > types of cells that make up the body .. and if we forget the body, then

> > the brain dies.

>

>Yes, Im gathering you believe that the brain, or some "material" in the body

>does the thinking and so the cells in the body/brain compose the "person"

>who lives in the body, probably in the brain? Thus when the brain dies

>thats that?

 

When the brain dies, the thought forms previously produced by the

brain still exist as a dimension of consciousness ..

 

The thinking-responding-reacting process of the brain has been

measured scientifically recently .. and I have also produced

images and measurements of the "radiation" of the brain

during the thinking process .. it is very much like a television transmitter ..

 

The thought forms produced are measurable as an electromagnetic field.

> > In fact, there is no quicker way to block the mind than block the anus.

>

>There's no way to block the mind, and why would one feel this necessary?

>Either leads to constipation! "Who" would want to do this?

 

A lot of people block the responses of the right brain .. every time

anyone denies telepathy, they do this .. every time anyone denies

they know who is on the phone before it rings they deny this ..

every time a mother denies she is pregnant, she denies the

conversation taking place between the unborn and herself ..

> > The other thing I cannot see in your writing .. is the role of the

> > unconscious .. that part of the reactionary mind which leads

> > the cognisant mind by about half a second ..

>

>I haven't written anything at all about the "unconscious". We are all

>unconscious most of the time.

 

Yes .. this is true ..

and whilst we continually try to create ideas with the conscious mind,

we are denying the unconscious thought process. Again, research has

shown that the response to external stimulii occurs in the right brain

up to half a second before the left brain responds .. and the responses

can be conflicting ..

 

The left brain .. one half of the mind responds by the logical conscious

thought process .. a bit like the old 1 bit computer which was either

on or off .. yes or no.

 

The right brain process is two much for the left to cope with .. able

to analyse and respond to a data stream many Mbits wide ..

> > Neither can I see anywhere any reference to the fact that in between

> > Eastern and Western .. the conscious is reversed .. ie in the East, the

> > Unconscious is outside the body .. whilst in the West .. because of

> > denial, the Unconscious is located in the cells of the body.

>

>"Zen straightforwardly enters into the depth of mind and breaks through it

>by becoming completely identical with it. This is called the Great Death -

>because it signifies the complete denial of human consciousness, including

>any such Jungian notion of the collective unconsciousness. And yet the

>Great Death in Zen is at one and the same time a resurrection in the Great

>Life - because this is breaking through of mind, not only is the realization

>that mind is unattainable or unknowable included, but also the realization

>that mind is unattainable or the unknowlable is precisely the true Mind or

>true Sel". and so on. But no talk about where any of this is located in

>the body - never have come across that.

 

well .. you know where Zen came from ...

 

It works like this .. the Zen silence is active .. in that it follows thought

to its source without analysis .. and as the products of the thinking

bit become conscious, the electromagnetic vortex of the cell changes

so that the "program" no longer exists ..

 

For all thought to be processed, there must be the processor and

the data to be processed. Within the thinking body mind, non

recognition of thought holds the data in the cell. Recognition of the

thought allows the data to be released and the em vortex of the cell

to change ..

 

this way, the body-mind becomes empty ..

this is the process of Zen ..

 

"The shadows sweep the stairs and raise no dust"

>So - Im not equipped to debate western scientific notions such as cells

>think or where the thinking occurs. Can you right now, follow thought and

>tell me where it originated from and where it disappears to? This includes

>the thought "memories are stored in the brains cells". And beyond heresay or

>the hypothetical.

 

Yes I can ..

 

I can even tell you where the thought originated from and what part of my

physical body holds the manifestation of that thought/memory ..

many of which were created by my ancestors, and were activated by

environmental influences since my conception from the single egg and sperm

which contained those memories ..

>Thought just occurs,

 

thought could be "thought of" as a reactionary creation response

>like any appearance it comes and goes. "memory" is used

>by relative consciousness to create and maintain the notion of a concept of

>self in time and space. Generation of memories are the way of sustaining

>personness.

 

Yes .. which is why we live on in consciousness as a thought form

which some call soul .. after the body has died ..

 

> > and by the way .. after the body is dead, the thought-forms

> > still exist .. but there is nothing you can do to change them ..

> > you need a body to do that!

>

>Do you know this from personal experience?

 

Yes I do .. three times because I didn't get it right the first two ..

>Then follows the standard instruction for recognizing the clear light.

 

Light is a metaphor ..

>Here

>awareness is clear and contentless, infinite and stripped of all structures,

>seeming free of all point of subjectivity or sense of objectivity.

 

awareness requires a subject - object separation ..

 

the question is, really, do we react to the awareness ..

and do we hold on to the awareness ...

 

any interpretation of the awareness is based on a past program ..

it depends whether I am attached to this program ..

><snip>

 

The difficulty arises in the definition applied to the word "soul" .. and

whether

we use the English definition descended from Church Doctrinal Definition

or return to the interpretation which sees it defined as

"air, breath or the act of breathing"

>"After the body has been cast off to a distance like a corpse, the Sage

>never more attaches himself to it." Sankara

 

One doesn't have to die to do this ..

 

and it is unfortunate that this text is, in my perception,

totally misinterpreted .. both in East and West ..

 

This is in part the reason why the Easterners find life

in the body so cheap ... and why there are so many of

them ...

 

One could benefit from looking at the psyche of the authors who

originally wrote these words .. and the affluent priests who sought

to maintain their position in the face or a restless lower caste //

>"If one opens one's eyes and seeks the body, it is not to be found any more.

>This is called; in the empty chamber it grows light. Inside and outside,

>everything is equally light. That's a very favorable sign". The Secret of

>the Golden Flower.

>

>Yours betwixt and between,

 

Always betwixt and between unless the original consciousness

of the writer can be entered at the moment the words were written ..

 

and what many do not understand, is that everything that is written

which comes from the thinking process is preconditioned ..

 

especially translations from other languages ..

 

>Joyce

 

 

cw