Guest guest Posted April 28, 2001 Report Share Posted April 28, 2001 Dear Tony, I hope everyone indulges you and me... and I hope that you will at some point indulge me and come out and play... > Subject line: Re: Senses are the delusionary sirens How many senses come into play, as you sit here scanning this screen, reading these words, interpreting the meanings, manipulating your mouse pointer, fiddling your finger, touching the keys, hearing the strokes, typing with you fingers... Do I smell a... Is there a bitter taste to this...? -------- 'On the one hand' and in one ear, you hear your mother impatiently clapping her hands calling you in, away from your play, the clatter and chatter of children's voices. "On the other hand' and in the other ear you hear someone's voice and you feel someone's hand keeping you in play, not happy to let go of your hand... The sound of many hands disturbingly clapping in one ear... (A proverbial Zen distortion :-) What is the feeling of one hand holding...? (A proverbial Zen distortion :-) --------- You wrote: > If one is trying to get out of a swimming pool one doesn't have to > know the molecular structure of the water--just get out. I would like you to notice, you have strong escape tendencies... coming up so many times with 'getting out of this - out of that examples..., e.g. transcending, getting beyond. You have been made to believe that this here: 'where and what you are' is not the place to be... Your (?) mind is tricking you. Someone else has made up your mind and you now read and filter all you that perceive through that mental mesh... You do not really get what the texts are saying in their original, 'uncommented upon' meaning... While you think that you are on the way of your way out, your are already out of it... come back into the swimming pool --- just get in... These molecules are inviting you... Lovingly, Wim PS. As someone suggested: "Om Namah Sivaya" also has to do with the five elements and the five elements have to do with the five senses. That is good-old natural philosophy. (Could someone resend me that post, cannot put my finger on it just now...) If one would take one element out, the whole structure would collapse... We can of course not do that... the thought experiment fails... and one snaps back into reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2001 Report Share Posted April 28, 2001 Namaste All, My take-- Senses are what make us think this dream is real. The more we indulge them in any way we just strengthen the attachment and descent of consciousness. If one is trying to get out of a swimming pool one doesn't have to know the molecular structure of the water--just get out. The senses are what differentiate us from the astral, and the mind differentiates the astral to the mental and to the end of itself. Like a charioteer we have to control the five horses/senses or the chariot goes where we do not know. 'God' and thought equal man. Man minus thought equals 'God'. There is no beginning to the dream but as it is not real there is an end to it. Om Namah Sivaya...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2001 Report Share Posted April 28, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphere@h...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > I hope everyone indulges you and me... and I hope that you will at some > point indulge me and come out and play... > > > Subject line: Re: Senses are the delusionary sirens > > How many senses come into play, as you sit here scanning this screen, > reading these words, interpreting the meanings, manipulating your mouse > pointer, fiddling your finger, touching the keys, hearing the strokes, > typing with you fingers... > Do I smell a... > Is there a bitter taste to this...? Namaste Wim, You will never appreciate what I am saying as long you are comparing apples with oranges. Adwaita with dwaita! Yes escaping is in my mind, to escape from delusion. Om Namah Sivaya is a mantra I have used for some time and I interpret it as 'Recognise the Universal Self or Siva'. Big Siva that is, as per Ramana. > -------- > > 'On the one hand' and in one ear, you hear your mother impatiently clapping > her hands calling you in, away from your play, the clatter and chatter of > children's voices. > "On the other hand' and in the other ear you hear someone's voice and you > feel someone's hand keeping you in play, not happy to let go of your hand... > > The sound of many hands disturbingly clapping in one ear... > (A proverbial Zen distortion :-) > > What is the feeling of one hand holding...? > (A proverbial Zen distortion :-) > > --------- > You wrote: > > If one is trying to get out of a swimming pool one doesn't have to > > know the molecular structure of the water--just get out. > > I would like you to notice, you have strong escape tendencies... coming up > so many times with 'getting out of this - out of that examples..., e.g. > transcending, getting beyond. > You have been made to believe that this here: 'where and what you are' is > not the place to be... > Your (?) mind is tricking you. Someone else has made up your mind and you > now read and filter all you that perceive through that mental mesh... > You do not really get what the texts are saying in their original, > 'uncommented upon' meaning... > > While you think that you are on the way of your way out, your are already > out of it... come back into the swimming pool --- just get in... > > These molecules are inviting you... > > Lovingly, Wim > > PS. > As someone suggested: "Om Namah Sivaya" also has to do with the five > elements and the five elements have to do with the five senses. That is > good-old natural philosophy. (Could someone resend me that post, cannot put > my finger on it just now...) > If one would take one element out, the whole structure would collapse... We > can of course not do that... the thought experiment fails... and one snaps > back into reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 Dear Tony, You wrote: > Yes escaping is in my mind, to escape from delusion. Notice how you say it is in your mind... Who, which person, told you that you were to escape from delusion? Who's delusion? Who is that perpetrator? Are you ready actually, to answer the question: "Who am I?" Have you found out yet, WHO took your identity away... Who hid the answer to that question "Who am I?" from you? You got to find out! Which real person...? Now do finally answer with somebody concrete... A name... you owe it to yourself... Do not beat around the bush... who are you protecting, who is hiding behind that veil that you are helping to keep up? I'm not joking here Tony... I am serious... You wrote: > Yes escaping is in my mind, to escape from delusion. Who told you about that delusion that you seem to have in mind... Who hurt you that much...? When you find out who that was or still is... then you will recover... yourself... Love, Wim PS There is no delusion to escape from... delusion does not even exist... that is why it is called delusion... Get real... Reality means literally the world of tangible things... res = thing When you drop 'it' on your toe, you will exclaim "I" Now did you clap your hands..., snap your fingers...? Do you comprehend...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 Hi Tony, Most of this sounds taken straight out of the Upanisads and other scriptures. Is this truly "Tony's take?" Just asking :-). No offense intended or implied in the question. I don't know what sadhanas and other practices you are involved in, but this much is known: "Head knowledge" of the scriptures is useless, it acts only as a clutter, and might as well be supplanted by some computer programming classes, or some other skill useful to keep the body in food, water and shelter. Love & Endless Blessings, Omkara , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > Namaste All, My take-- > > Senses are what make us think this dream is real. The more we > indulge > them in any way we just strengthen the attachment and descent of > consciousness. > > If one is trying to get out of a swimming pool one doesn't have to > know the molecular structure of the water--just get out. > > The senses are what differentiate us from the astral, and the mind > differentiates the astral to the mental and to the end of itself. > > Like a charioteer we have to control the five horses/senses or the > chariot goes where we do not know. > > 'God' and thought equal man. Man minus thought equals 'God'. > > There is no beginning to the dream but as it is not real there is an > end to it. > > Om Namah Sivaya...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 Is not "Advaita vs. Dvaita" -- Dvaita? Is delusion real? Can one empty the water from a desert mirage? Is there anything but the Universal Self? It is already Recognized. It is already Realized. Quit bugging it! ;-) There is nothing to do and nowhere to go. Drop the search for answers, and the questions 'miraculously' resolve themselves. **WHO IS READING THIS?** Namaste, Omkara , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > You will never appreciate what I am saying as long you are > comparing apples with oranges. Adwaita with dwaita! > > Yes escaping is in my mind, to escape from delusion. > > Om Namah Sivaya is a mantra I have used for some time and I interpret > it as 'Recognise the Universal Self or Siva'. Big Siva that is, as per > Ramana. > > -------- > > > > 'On the one hand' and in one ear, you hear your mother impatiently > clapping > > her hands calling you in, away from your play, the clatter and > chatter of > > children's voices. > > "On the other hand' and in the other ear you hear someone's voice > and you > > feel someone's hand keeping you in play, not happy to let go of your > hand... > > > > The sound of many hands disturbingly clapping in one ear... > > (A proverbial Zen distortion :-) > > > > What is the feeling of one hand holding...? > > (A proverbial Zen distortion :-) > > > > --------- > > You wrote: > > > If one is trying to get out of a swimming pool one doesn't have to > > > know the molecular structure of the water--just get out. > > > > I would like you to notice, you have strong escape tendencies... > coming up > > so many times with 'getting out of this - out of that examples..., > e.g. > > transcending, getting beyond. > > You have been made to believe that this here: 'where and what you > are' is > > not the place to be... > > Your (?) mind is tricking you. Someone else has made up your mind > and you > > now read and filter all you that perceive through that mental > mesh... > > You do not really get what the texts are saying in their original, > > 'uncommented upon' meaning... > > > > While you think that you are on the way of your way out, your are > already > > out of it... come back into the swimming pool --- just get in... > > > > These molecules are inviting you... > > > > Lovingly, Wim > > > > PS. > > As someone suggested: "Om Namah Sivaya" also has to do with the five > > elements and the five elements have to do with the five senses. That > is > > good-old natural philosophy. (Could someone resend me that post, > cannot put > > my finger on it just now...) > > If one would take one element out, the whole structure would > collapse... We > > can of course not do that... the thought experiment fails... and one > snaps > > back into reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 Questions only exist because the ego mind mill not accept .. or denies .. that it already knows all that there is to know .. or .. it is trying to establish self importance from challenging another ego mind .. or .. it is trying to find something which will justify what it is holding onto as a self-limiting deception .. all of these are symptoms of MM (or if you prefer it MW) which, when done in a group, this can be quite incestuous especially amongst SPG's. cw At 09:21 PM 29/04/01, you wrote: >Is not "Advaita vs. Dvaita" -- Dvaita? > >Is delusion real? Can one empty the water from a desert mirage? > >Is there anything but the Universal Self? It is already Recognized. >It is already Realized. Quit bugging it! ;-) > >There is nothing to do and nowhere to go. > >Drop the search for answers, and the questions 'miraculously' resolve >themselves. > >**WHO IS READING THIS?** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 SW... , Christopher Wynter <lifestreams@b...> wrote: > all of these are symptoms of MM (or if you prefer it MW) > which, when done in a group, this can be quite incestuous > especially amongst SPG's. > > > cw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphere@h...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > You wrote: > > Yes escaping is in my mind, to escape from delusion. > > Notice how you say it is in your mind... > > Who, which person, told you that you were to escape from delusion? Who's > delusion? Who is that perpetrator? > > Are you ready actually, to answer the question: "Who am I?" > Have you found out yet, WHO took your identity away... > Who hid the answer to that question "Who am I?" from you? > > You got to find out! Which real person...? > Now do finally answer with somebody concrete... > A name... you owe it to yourself... > Namaste Wim, You will never convince me of your belief in the reality of the world. Picking me up on my language doesn't change anything. I know intellectually who I am but I have not realised moksha, as you assert you have. If I am hynotised and told cold iron is hot, when I pick it up it will burn and blister me. If you go to the level of besons quarks and other sub atomic particles there is no mass at all. This is an illusion that seems real while one is in it. When one knows it is false, then one can walk through walls like Jesus. ONS Tony > Do not beat around the bush... who are you protecting, who is hiding behind > that veil that you are helping to keep up? > > I'm not joking here Tony... I am serious... > > You wrote: > > Yes escaping is in my mind, to escape from delusion. > > Who told you about that delusion that you seem to have in mind... Who hurt > you that much...? > > When you find out who that was or still is... then you will recover... > yourself... > > Love, Wim > > PS > There is no delusion to escape from... > delusion does not even exist... > that is why it is called delusion... > > Get real... > Reality means literally the world of tangible things... > res = thing > When you drop 'it' on your toe, you will exclaim "I" > > Now did you clap your hands..., snap your fingers...? > Do you comprehend...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 , "Omkara" <coresite@h...> wrote: > > Hi Tony, > > Most of this sounds taken straight out of the Upanisads and other > scriptures. Is this truly "Tony's take?" > > Just asking :-). No offense intended or implied in the question. > > I don't know what sadhanas and other practices you are involved in, > but this much is known: "Head knowledge" of the scriptures is > useless, it acts only as a clutter, and might as well be supplanted > by some computer programming classes, or some other skill useful to > keep the body in food, water and shelter. > > Love & Endless Blessings, > > Omkara > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > Namaste All, My take-- > > > > Senses are what make us think this dream is real. The more we > > indulge > > them in any way we just strengthen the attachment and descent of > > consciousness. > > > > If one is trying to get out of a swimming pool one doesn't have to > > know the molecular structure of the water--just get out. > > > > The senses are what differentiate us from the astral, and the mind > > differentiates the astral to the mental and to the end of itself. > > > > Like a charioteer we have to control the five horses/senses or the > > chariot goes where we do not know. > > > > 'God' and thought equal man. Man minus thought equals 'God'. > > > > There is no beginning to the dream but as it is not real there is > an > > end to it. > > > > Om Namah Sivaya...Tony. Namaste, You will notice that I don't quote much from scripture, I have read them years ago. My mind has its own programming now. ONS Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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