To Tony

[Guest guest]

Dear Tony,

I have empathy for you. i feel great sadness that you seem to go

through life with such darkness clouding your way. You see only the

unpleasantness and none of the beauty. We are only passing through

here. We were never ment to be here forever. It is a gift to have

this experience, to be able to witness the beauty of a sunrise, to

hear the waves crash endlessly upon the sand, to taste the salt in

the air or smell the flowers as you pass by. To form a friendship

with a "pet", i prefer to call my dog by her name, sunshine, and she

is my companion. I love her and she loves me, yes there is

attachment, i will grieve for her when she is gone, and she will not

accept food from the hand of any one but me. I have human companions

i love and animal companions i love. to never know this love is to

have never lived. This is the opportunity to experience the beauty

of God's creation, the magnificence of His power. Even a blind man

sees the beauty in the wind rustling through the leaves of a tree,

the song of a bird in spring time, the sound of a river rushing to

the sea. There is beauty in the smell of a horse as you ride through

the fields or the forest, even more so if you leave off the saddle

and allow your legs to feel the horse as it breathes and moves under

you. The sound of the drum calling the dancers to the circle, the

young ones, barely able to walk, holding the hand of their mother,

father, grandfather and taking their place among the people. There

is such joy here, such wonder and awe and beauty, my heart weeps

that you can not see it.

Love Gracie

[Guest guest]

, crookedlace wrote:

> Dear Tony,

> I have empathy for you. i feel great sadness that you seem to go

> through life with such darkness clouding your way. You see only the

> unpleasantness and none of the beauty. We are only passing through

> here. We were never ment to be here forever. It is a gift to have

> this experience, to be able to witness the beauty of a sunrise, to

> hear the waves crash endlessly upon the sand, to taste the salt in

> the air or smell the flowers as you pass by. To form a friendship

> with a "pet", i prefer to call my dog by her name, sunshine, and

she

> is my companion. I love her and she loves me, yes there is

> attachment, i will grieve for her when she is gone, and she will

not

> accept food from the hand of any one but me. I have human

companions

> i love and animal companions i love. to never know this love is to

> have never lived. This is the opportunity to experience the beauty

> of God's creation, the magnificence of His power. Even a blind

man

> sees the beauty in the wind rustling through the leaves of a tree,

> the song of a bird in spring time, the sound of a river rushing to

> the sea. There is beauty in the smell of a horse as you ride

through

> the fields or the forest, even more so if you leave off the saddle

> and allow your legs to feel the horse as it breathes and moves

under

> you. The sound of the drum calling the dancers to the circle, the

> young ones, barely able to walk, holding the hand of their mother,

> father, grandfather and taking their place among the people.

There

> is such joy here, such wonder and awe and beauty, my heart weeps

> that you can not see it.

> Love Gracie

 

Namaste Gracie, All,

 

Don't cry for me Argentina! Gracie you are really misreading what I am

saying which is almost incredulous on site dedicated to Advaita

Vedanta. There was a remark about Native N.American. I live in British

Columbia, we have a greater percentage of Natives here than anywhere

in N America, except Mexico. I have part native grandchildren, and I

have a large family, plus I have pets.

 

Yes I Love them all, and in fact we are raising one of our

grandchildren.

So I understand what 'human love', is, but ultimately it is attachment

for do I love your grandchild or child as I do mine? Or vice-versa.

 

Because I have a desire for Moksha or liberation doesn't mean I have a

negative view of 'life'. This is the common accusation that people

make against yoga and eastern philosophy. That it is negative because

it doesn't teach that the 'illusion', should be enjoyed and

strengthened. Most enjoyment in the normal western world is actually

distraction. True joy comes from the spiritual depths, and the joy of

seeing everything as a projection of the Divine and being it.

 

The happiest person is the one that has no desires/attachments at all.

 

Sorry you misread me, but that is par for the course.

 

Om Namah Sivaya.....Tony

[Guest guest]

---Dear Tony,

I do not speak for all, i would never presume so much as to attempt

to do so. I can only speak of what i have experienced and know to

be true. As for loving children that are not mine, or being loved by

other than my parents i know this to be true. I am technically 1/2

native, 1/2 Irish. My mother was not of the people. She became what

we refer to as a "marry-in". We dont designate this person as non-

native from that point further. They belong to the family that they

have married into. My mother was looked at closely to determine

what sort of person my father would bring among the people. When it

was seen that she was a good person, she was accepted and treated

as one of us. They loved her as they did their own. As evidence of

this, My mother became severely ill. so much so that it was

required that she have a kidney transplant. Her blood family would

not all submit to the testing, but all my tribe did so. There was

many occasions that she required blood and the tribal unit would

fill the hospital to donate it. She never received her transplant.

from the time i was 5 years old until she died when i was 10, she

lived in our home on a machine. My father went to learn how to run

it as it was the new thing in the 70's, and there were no local

hospitals possesing them, we traveled for 4 hours each way to have

it done until he learned and we began to do it ourselves at home.

The women of our tribe came to sit with her, as she lay immobile for

6 hours at a time. they talked to her, comforted her, brought their

children to distract me and my sister, they cleaned for her cooked

for us. Whatever we needed was provided with out need to ask. When

she died they raised me along with my father. these people who you

think can only love their own children took me in when i was home

alone while my father was at work. all men and women of a certain

age are my uncles and aunts. I did not want for love and family and

concern for my well being even though i became motherless. It is

not this way with the outside world. But among my people it is

this way, i lived it. They did for my mother who was not of our

people, more than even her own blood relatives would do, what more

can be asked of any one? Again i am sorry you have not known such

things it is sad. but they do exist, they are real, and some poeple

do care.

Love Gracie

In , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

> , crookedlace wrote:

> > Dear Tony,

> > I have empathy for you. i feel great sadness that you seem to

go

> > through life with such darkness clouding your way. You see only

the

> > unpleasantness and none of the beauty. We are only passing

through

> > here. We were never ment to be here forever. It is a gift to

have

> > this experience, to be able to witness the beauty of a sunrise,

to

>

> > hear the waves crash endlessly upon the sand, to taste the salt

in

> > the air or smell the flowers as you pass by. To form a

friendship

> > with a "pet", i prefer to call my dog by her name, sunshine, and

> she

> > is my companion. I love her and she loves me, yes there is

> > attachment, i will grieve for her when she is gone, and she will

> not

> > accept food from the hand of any one but me. I have human

> companions

> > i love and animal companions i love. to never know this love is

to

> > have never lived. This is the opportunity to experience the

beauty

> > of God's creation, the magnificence of His power. Even a blind

> man

> > sees the beauty in the wind rustling through the leaves of a

tree,

> > the song of a bird in spring time, the sound of a river rushing

to

> > the sea. There is beauty in the smell of a horse as you ride

> through

> > the fields or the forest, even more so if you leave off the

saddle

> > and allow your legs to feel the horse as it breathes and moves

> under

> > you. The sound of the drum calling the dancers to the circle, the

> > young ones, barely able to walk, holding the hand of their

mother,

> > father, grandfather and taking their place among the people.

> There

> > is such joy here, such wonder and awe and beauty, my heart weeps

> > that you can not see it.

> > Love Gracie

>

> Namaste Gracie, All,

>

> Don't cry for me Argentina! Gracie you are really misreading what I

am

> saying which is almost incredulous on site dedicated to Advaita

> Vedanta. There was a remark about Native N.American. I live in

British

> Columbia, we have a greater percentage of Natives here than

anywhere

> in N America, except Mexico. I have part native grandchildren, and

I

> have a large family, plus I have pets.

>

> Yes I Love them all, and in fact we are raising one of our

> grandchildren.

> So I understand what 'human love', is, but ultimately it is

attachment

> for do I love your grandchild or child as I do mine? Or vice-versa.

>

> Because I have a desire for Moksha or liberation doesn't mean I

have a

> negative view of 'life'. This is the common accusation that people

> make against yoga and eastern philosophy. That it is negative

because

> it doesn't teach that the 'illusion', should be enjoyed and

> strengthened. Most enjoyment in the normal western world is

actually

> distraction. True joy comes from the spiritual depths, and the joy

of

> seeing everything as a projection of the Divine and being it.

>

> The happiest person is the one that has no desires/attachments at

all.

>

> Sorry you misread me, but that is par for the course.

>

> Om Namah Sivaya.....Tony

[Guest guest]

-

Tony O'Clery

Monday, April 30, 2001 6:59 AM

Re: To The happiest person is the one that has no desires/attachments at

all.Sorry you misread me, but that is par for the course.Om Namah

Sivaya.....Tony-----------------------Walt-----------------

Tony. I have often heard and reflected upon just what you have said.

I have understanding of the meaning behind the words and was prompted

to reply. One cannot go thru this life w/o desire, it is not possible

to do and still be here. Just as some people will say they do not

judge, it is a lie unto themselves. Everything we say, think or do

takes desire and judgment. To profess no desire is the "way" is to

take honest seekers of truth down a lonely dark path till they "see"

the "truth" in this statement. I have a perception of your meaning

but maybe you could elaborate a little further yourself? Thanks &

Blessings ...Walt

[Guest guest]

, crookedlace wrote:> fill the hospital

to donate it. She never received her transplant.

> from the time i was 5 years old until she died when i was 10, she

> lived in our home on a machine. My father went to learn how to

run

> it as it was the new thing in the 70's, and there were no local

> hospitals possesing them, we traveled for 4 hours each way to have

> it done until he learned and we began to do it ourselves at home.

> The women of our tribe came to sit with her, as she lay immobile for

> 6 hours at a time. they talked to her, comforted her, brought their

> children to distract me and my sister, they cleaned for her cooked

> for us. Whatever we needed was provided with out need to ask. When

> she died they raised me along with my father. these people who you

> think can only love their own children took me in when i was home

> alone while my father was at work. all men and women of a certain

> age are my uncles and aunts. I did not want for love and family

and

> concern for my well being even though i became motherless. It is

> not this way with the outside world. But among my people it is

> this way, i lived it. They did for my mother who was not of our

> people, more than even her own blood relatives would do, what more

> can be asked of any one? Again i am sorry you have not known such

> things it is sad. but they do exist, they are real, and some poeple

> do care.

> Love Gracie

 

Namaste Gracie,

 

The behaviour of the tribal women is more in the description of love.

For they were doing selfless service. One can only approach these

things with the motive in mind. If there is no motive other than to

help another being without thought of reward, or 'I am helping', then

this is nearer to the description of love than human attachment.

 

I have known many such people, and this is really not what my pet

human post was about. It was about attachment. If you help someone

with the thought 'I am helping', then this is attachment and its own

reward.......ONS Tony.

[Guest guest]

, "Omkara" <coresite@h...> wrote:

 

Namaste Tim,

 

In my glass house, the stones I throw don't kill sentient beings. With

regard to Maharaj. I know he smoked and ate meat etc. Whether he was

realised or not, I don't know. If he was then what he ate and smoked

would be irrelevant. God eating God in a non existant dream.

 

My point originally was that meat eating and the killing of animals is

an indication of a lack of awareness, and not conducive to it. I was

taken to task of course. Also you will note that when I returned here,

which I do periodically. My post were treated with a certain amount of

sarcasm my the resident pandits. So then I knew that was the game

played here on this trip.

 

It is not my job to point out human hypocrisy, I know. I'm glad you

admit to its existence. Also I am aware of my faults, and there are

lots and lots. However I look from whence I came and wonder how I got

this far or how I can even read and understand Vedanta at all. I'm

still the same person I was just know more that's all.

 

In fact really I know that I don't know. However on this list some

write some post reams of scriptures. I don't know why I'm here this

time at all.

 

I doubt if any of the handful of jivanmuktis in this world are on

this or any other list.

 

So lets change the subject, eating corpses seems to get everybody

excited.

 

Avatars, what are they? We are all Avatars are we not. Is a jivanmukti

more advanced than a bhodisattva?.....ONS...Tony.