] Harsha & All - Ramana Maharshi - ramble

[Guest guest]

> There seems to be some 'self deception' going on in the name of 'Bhakti' on

> the list.

>

> There are those ready to "defend" Sri Ramana Maharshi at every turn if

> "something bad" had been perceived said, even though he left the body years

> ago.

 

Dear List,

 

How very odd, am I missing some postings? I haven't noticed Sri Ramana

Maharshi being attacked or defended, nor have I felt anyone "pushing" his or

any other teachings on me. Granted I sometimes read another's delight in

something they have discovered through certain teachings - and for this I

feel joy. And when someone accuses others of not practicing "self-inquiry"

I look to who is manifesting this bit of duality for my delight. Usually,

if one is really practicing they have no time to evaluate the practice of

"others", (who can say where "others" begin and where "I" leave off?)

and

when judgement occurs, one just notices this arising and lets it float by.

 

When I notice the patterns occuring on various lists its quite interesting

and allows me to see my own -Tim/Omkara and whatver else he calls himself

today, is always popping up on "non-duality" lists and then after a short

time popping off again in a huff, after observing that others are not up to

his standard and expectations nor practicing correctly. But Im not here to

live up to anyone's expectations. Im always curious about people's

motivations but now Tim is off again and I can't ask.

 

Unless we post from a text written by those masters who are masters, what we

are doing is posting our opinions, such as i am doing now. When Vickie, for

example, posts a quote from Sri Ramana Maharshi - this gives me an

opportunity for reflection. One lets the phrase or two rest in mind, rather

like a koan, and eventually, an insight into the phrase will arise from

wisdom mind. The more insight that arises into the true nature and ultimate

reality of things, the less ego clinging and its suffering. I gather that

some have read texts and teachings and now feel they are beyond such things.

Yet, great Pandita's continue to humbly read and reflect, because while

there is nothing to "attain" there is an ever deepening of insight. I know

absolutely nothing at all...and anyone who can be very honest with

themselves will know for certain when are fully realized and when they are

not. I am sure that everyone on this list has had some intuition of truth -

whether we can directly express this well is debatible, but because we are

on this list we manifest it, each in their own way. Sometimes a person has

taken a phrase or text teaching, reflected deeply upon in and has come up

with an insight into it -Im interesting in hearing what they have

experienced since we are all so unique. Sometimes someone comes up with

something, coming out of deep reflection and not just a reaction of conceit,

that allows me to see something Ive never seen before. (Especially when they

can write pithy poems)

 

Nothing has changed in human nature since the time of the Buddha and the

Buddhas before the time of the Buddha, there is still hatred, greed and

delusion. There is still suffering. This is what we work with as honestly

as we can. The place we work with them is right here in body and mind, as

it arises in the moment. Very directly and honestly and beyond concepts.

We use the concepts to communicate what we have discovered up until now and

this is a work in progress. The notion that I have some real insight to

post, that "I" have arrived, is a burden of self I can't carry, and I don't

expect this of others. Wny not just be Friends in the Sufi sense, fellow

travelers.

 

I think someone suggested that one should meditate beyond, or ignoring, the

body. This seems somewhat ill advised because the body, and the breath, are

the most obvious objects for contemplation. i.e. for the past week or so I

have had excrutiating back pain. This is a great object for contemplation.

One watches the tendency to resist against sensation, (grab the pain killers

in whatever form one can find them) one can note fear, aversion, or, one

can really allow it, penetrate deeply into sensation and at a certain point

there is just sensation pure in itself and beyond the label "pain". When

mind closes in around pain and there is a self experiencing it then contact

with spaciousness of environment is lost - when one completely opens to it,

sensation arises and disappears in waves, like sound, or taste or vision.

Contact of "I" with this phenomena, some attaching to it occurs, mind has an

aversion to pain and a seeking of pleasure. Most interestingly, sometimes

there is a sense of someone experiencing pain, other times there is just the

relaxation into it, sensation appearing and disappearing, as everything

does, beyond any subject experiencing its object. Also interesting,

timeless awareness itself is untouched by any of the ongoing drama. "I" and

its "pain" seem to arise together in an environment of clarity and utter

openness. This never changes whatever is appearing and disappearing. When

there is only sensation, there is not "body' and experientially, I couldn't

tell you whether this phenomena is "inside' body or mind or "outside." Just

complete surrender into what the moment brings without the ever neurotic

desire to be anywhere but here, experiencing anything but this. And it is

only by seeing deeply into all phenonema arises through the senses that mind

eventually sees clearly into their true nature and then just lets go.

 

The Astavakra Samhita and Dzogchen texts say the same thing -

 

"The liberated one neither abhors the objects of the senses nor craves them.

Ever with detached mind, he experiences them as they come." AS

 

Both aversion and craving to whatever - are simply signs of attachment which

itself comes and goes. Attachment/addiction to "spiritual" notions,

particularily the notion that one has realized something, has the same

deadening effect as attachment to apple pie because mind has closed down

against its environment of complete open radiance where everything just

appears and disappears. Attachment to "non-attachment" also has the same

deadening effect and is a misunderstanding of the teachings.

 

"One who abhors sense-objects becomes non-attached and one who covets them

becomes attached to them. But he who does not accept or reject is neither

unattached nor attached." AS

 

So - now we xould look into this notion of "attachment" and

"non-attachment", and what we accept and reject. One just simply notes

without value judgement. Hmm, yes, liking for this arising, hum, disliking

of that arising, bird singing, pain arising disappearing, craving arising

disappearing, sadness arising, disappearing, happiness and joy arising and

disappearing - thoughts occuring, all just flowing along - nothing to be

done, nowhere to go. If one is trying to go beyond the senses, or body, or

pain, this comes out of mind of hate and aversion, if one covets the

"enlightened state" this is greed practice - both delusional, and both

grounded in desire. Most interesting!

 

Metta,

 

Joyce

>

> Who the hell is being defended? A concept, an idea, a dead past. The idea

> that "Ramana Maharshi's teachings are correct for everyone" and are "a

> world teaching."

>

> There is something egoistic and improper about this. Sri Ramana Maharshi

> himself would certainly think so. He never stated himself a world teacher.

>

> ***

>

> I have permanently d to the mailing list. There

> is a religious aspect to this list.... it is no longer a Satsangha, it is a

> religion now. Soon there will be "Priests of Ramanaism." The rot has

> started.

>

> Sad that nobody practices Self-Inquiry, but instead sucks on the pointing

> finger, and looks not at the moon. Never look at the moon, or Ramana will

> be lost, nyet?

>

> Sad, but true... Ramana's teachings are likely now headed down the same

> path as those of the Bible 2000 years ago. And the priests and pundits

> will take it all away.

>

> Namaste,

>

> Omkara / Tim

[Guest guest]

Hi Joyce,

>snip<

>When Vickie, for

>example, posts a quote from Sri Ramana Maharshi - this gives me an

>opportunity for reflection. One lets the phrase or two rest in mind, rather

>like a koan, and eventually, an insight into the phrase will arise from

>wisdom mind. The more insight that arises into the true nature and ultimate

>reality of things, the less ego clinging and its suffering. I gather that

>some have read texts and teachings and now feel they are beyond such things.

>Yet, great Pandita's continue to humbly read and reflect, because while

>there is nothing to "attain" there is an ever deepening of insight.

 

Yes! This is beautiful...

>snip<

>I think someone suggested that one should meditate beyond, or ignoring, the

>body.

 

I was writing about interior meditation and how it can be difficult to read

the texts on it, because of the problems of words... It is always

difficult to express these things through words, symbol and metaphor, and

sometimes difficult to see just what the writer is actually talking about.

)

 

I didn't mean to say that one form of meditation is right for everyone...

just to discuss that form.

> This seems somewhat ill advised because the body, and the breath, are

>the most obvious objects for contemplation.

 

When I teach meditation, I suggest a symbol to concentrate on, the "seed"

to focus on. Eventually one moves on to meditation without seed. You are

using the body and the breath for the same purpose, for the seed.

 

You seem to be after the same end...

>snip<

> then contact

>with spaciousness of environment is lost...

>snip>

>sensation appearing and disappearing, as everything

>does, beyond any subject experiencing its object.

>snip<

>timeless awareness itself

>snip<

>

> an environment of clarity and utter

>openness.

 

The main difference, I think, is that I find it easier - and easier to

teach - to simply lay the body down and put it to sleep and go inward...

or upward... away from the physical consciousness, then the emotional,

then the mental/intellectual, to enter in clarity into the higher levels,

into timeless awareness itself.

 

It is a little like one person doing his work in a bright room full of

people and noise... he learns to ignore it all, to rise above it... and

another person choosing to go into a sound-proof, windowless room to do his

work without distraction.

 

The primary text I use is Patanjali's _Yoga Sutras_, but I came across the

_Bhagavad-Gita_ first and it was most helpful in my own development.

>The Astavakra Samhita and Dzogchen texts say the same thing -

>

>"The liberated one neither abhors the objects of the senses nor craves them.

>Ever with detached mind, he experiences them as they come." AS

>

>Both aversion and craving to whatever - are simply signs of attachment which

>itself comes and goes.

>snip<

>

>"One who abhors sense-objects becomes non-attached and one who covets them

>becomes attached to them. But he who does not accept or reject is neither

>unattached nor attached." AS

 

If you had me in mind in using these quotes, I'll just point out that I

don't abhor the senses or feel aversion to them... in fact, that was what

I was saying in my post. Why feel one way or another about the senses? We

live with them as long as we are incarnate... they are our means of

perceiving the world around us. And why should we not enjoy this beautiful

world? In interior meditation, one simply sets them aside and goes beyond

them for a while in what seems to me the easiest way.

 

There are many paths... may we walk them all in beauty.

 

Love,

Dharma