Joyce / Ramana Maharshi - ramble

[Guest guest]

Hi Joyce!

Resonating here with your

description of meditation

on backaches, sensations,

breath and body.

The senses are one sense.

There is no inside or outside

until sense differentiates

itself into "layers and directions".

Eventually, such differentiation

proceeds to "become" different senses,

and the different senses "triangulate",

that is interact with each other in ways

that give confirmation to a form of

reality -- including space and dimensionality,

as well as a "body concept".

Through differentiation seeming objects form.

If the original undivided sense is comprehended,

what objects are there, to which "attachment"

or "nonattachment" could be possible stances?

Similarly one cell differentiates, "becomes"

different cells, then forms various connections

as "a body". Yet the original body remains

undifferentiated, the "womb of the tathagatas" ...

Intriguing it is to realize that all senses are

one sense, with no inside or outside -

And this primordial undifferentiated sense

is the literal "breathing of the universe".

Nothing "made" this sense, so why try to make

sense of it? ;-)

Various chants, images, and activities refer

to this original sense, which can't be

referred to, as it is all that is ...

The human urge to give form to the formless --

how interesting that we give form to that

which is forming us, in the process

through which we find ourselves giving form ...

Namaste,

Dan

Joyce wrote, in part:

I think someone suggested that one should meditate beyond, or ignoring,

the

body. This seems somewhat ill advised because the body, and the

breath, are

the most obvious objects for contemplation. i.e. for the past week

or so I

have had excrutiating back pain. This is a great object for

contemplation.

One watches the tendency to resist against sensation, (grab the pain

killers

in whatever form one can find them) one can note fear, aversion,

or, one

can really allow it, penetrate deeply into sensation and at a certain

point

there is just sensation pure in itself and beyond the label

"pain". When

mind closes in around pain and there is a self experiencing it then

contact

with spaciousness of environment is lost - when one completely opens to

it,

sensation arises and disappears in waves, like sound, or taste or

vision.

Contact of "I" with this phenomena, some attaching to it

occurs, mind has an

aversion to pain and a seeking of pleasure. Most interestingly,

sometimes

there is a sense of someone experiencing pain, other times there is just

the

relaxation into it, sensation appearing and disappearing, as

everything

does, beyond any subject experiencing its object. Also

interesting,

timeless awareness itself is untouched by any of the ongoing drama.

"I" and

its "pain" seem to arise together in an environment of clarity

and utter

openness. This never changes whatever is appearing and

disappearing. When

there is only sensation, there is not "body' and experientially, I

couldn't

tell you whether this phenomena is "inside' body or mind or

"outside." Just

complete surrender into what the moment brings without the ever

neurotic

desire to be anywhere but here, experiencing anything but this. And it

is

only by seeing deeply into all phenonema arises through the senses that

mind

eventually sees clearly into their true nature and then just lets

go.

The Astavakra Samhita and Dzogchen texts say the same thing -

"The liberated one neither abhors the objects of the senses nor

craves them.

Ever with detached mind, he experiences them as they come." AS

Both aversion and craving to whatever - are simply signs of attachment

which

itself comes and goes. Attachment/addiction to

"spiritual" notions,

particularily the notion that one has realized something, has the

same

deadening effect as attachment to apple pie because mind has closed

down

against its environment of complete open radiance where everything

just

appears and disappears. Attachment to "non-attachment"

also has the same

deadening effect and is a misunderstanding of the teachings.

"One who abhors sense-objects becomes non-attached and one who

covets them

becomes attached to them. But he who does not accept or reject is

neither

unattached nor attached." AS

So - now we xould look into this notion of "attachment"

and

"non-attachment", and what we accept and reject. One just

simply notes

without value judgement. Hmm, yes, liking for this arising, hum,

disliking

of that arising, bird singing, pain arising disappearing, craving

arising

disappearing, sadness arising, disappearing, happiness and joy arising

and

disappearing - thoughts occuring, all just flowing along - nothing to

be

done, nowhere to go. If one is trying to go beyond the senses, or body,

or

pain, this comes out of mind of hate and aversion, if one covets the

"enlightened state" this is greed practice - both delusional,

and both

grounded in desire. Most interesting!

Metta,

Joyce

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