Real Meditation is Samadhi!

[Guest guest]

>

> When I say that meditation cannot be taught, I mean the description is

> wrong.

>

> Concentration, contemplation and meditation are the three stages.

> Concentration is within the senses, contemplation is partly within,

> and meditation is above the senses.

>

> In yoga it is ekagratha or one pointedness, pratyahara or withdrawal

> of the senses, dharana or concentration, dhyana or contemplation, and

> samadhis or meditation.

>

> So meditation is merging with the universal in samadhi, that cannot be

> taught in a classroom.

 

An interesting take on "samadhi" - which in my book means "concentration"

the mental state of being firmly fixed upon - one of the seven concomittants

inseparably associated with all consciousness.

 

Samma-samadhi is defined as the four meditative absorptions (jhana) although

there actually are eight.

 

Attainment concentration (appana-samadhi) is the concentration present

during the absorptions.

 

The "jhanas" (trance, meditation) - entering into the first absorption

which is accompanied by Thought-conception and discursive thinking is born

of detachment (=concentration samadhi) and filled with rapture and joy.

 

Then after the fading away of rapture, he dwells in equanimity, mindful and

clearly conscious in the second jhana - and thus he enters the third

absorption...

 

After having given up pleasure and pain, and through disappearance of the

previous joy and grief he enters into a state beyond pleasure and pain into

the fourth absorption, which is purified by equanimity and mindfulness.

 

Through the total overcoming of the perceptions of matter, however, and

through the vanishing of sense-reactions and the non attention to the

perceptions of variety, with the idea "Boundless is space, he reaches the

Sphere of Boundless Space.

 

Through the total overcoming of the Sphere of Boundless Space and with the

idea/discernment 'Boundless is consciousness' he reaches the Sphere of

Boundless Consciousness and abides therein.

 

Through the total overcoming of the Sphere of Boundless Consciousness, and

with the idea: Nothing is there, he reaches the Sphere of Nothingness and

abides therein.

 

Through the total overcoming of the sphere of Nothingness he reaches the

Sphere of Neither-Perception-Nor-Non-Perception and abides therein.

 

And then there is more -

 

So - one definately is taught, at least guided, usually through the use of

kasinas, objects of concentration like a circle or color. The jhanas are

thought of as a good basis for Vipassana but not necessary. These

experiences of jhanas are just that, experiences, although they do remove

many hindrances. Traditionally, at least in Buddhism, only through deep

insight into suffering, imperamance and no-self (any experience of any one

of these will bring the insight into the others) does one realize "nirvana".

 

And for "nirvana"- "Verily there is an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated,

Unformed. If there was not this Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, escape

from the world of the born, the originated, the created, the formed would

not be possible. This nirvana visible in this life, immediate, inviting,

attractive and comprehensible to the wise." Which is hopeful -since it

says, "immediate and visible".

 

"Mere suffering exists, no suffer is found;

The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there;

Nirvana is, but not the man that enters it;

The Path is, but no traveller on it is seen" (Vis.XVI)

 

 

Many people do these practices (Jhana), even I have done them, since some

here "wonder" about authenticity whatever that is - Im guessing attributing

the projection of phoniness on to others. They are good to know about

because one can misperceive even rapture as having finally arrived. So -

one studies, practices and checks out practice with a teacher (who generally

smiles and tells one to carry on). People who can bake bread can teach

others how to do it. I tended to be attached to boundless Space, and then

bored with that thought boundless Consciousness rather fine. I definately

liked "rapture" and this can be generated as a base for insight practice

which feels better than habitual pain. When I discovered that none of the

jhanas led directly to non-duality (just fine immaterial states - rather

nice but impermanent) then I lost interest. There are lots of funny stories

of folks sitting in absorption in caves and then coming out to find

everything as it was including themselves. Anything can be learned,

"recognition" is what is tricky. ie. here "recognition" is such as what

happens in mind when one sees that that rope wasnt a snake, that the scary

monster in the dark cupboard was actually only a robe hanging on the door,

or when a mother recognizes her child in a group of children. But,

finally,only in my experience, it isn't one-pointedness, or withdrawal, it

is a complete openning out in and to all directionlessness, and this is

Peace. (Dan) Although, if you get one-pointed enough, you can blast out

into openness (Zen)

 

What was your experience, Tony?

 

Metta, (Ive put my Theravada hat back on since Terry now has me shouting

"Rigpa")

 

Joyce

[Guest guest]

Namaste All,

 

One cannot transcribe Buddhist descriptions for Vedantic ones they do

not correlate that easily.

 

I use the terms that Ramana would use. Nirvikalpa, Shaja etc.

 

My experience is that there comes a point where nothing exists at all,

and the body is still and silent like a log, unlike movement in sleep.

 

In experiences, below that level I noticed different planes, forms and

levels all the way up to sound and light only. Usually I just by pass

those levels, they are part of experience and only exist in the mind.

 

In the past I used to meditate on a form initially, using japa, which

caused all kinds of phenomena at times. These days I just use some

intitial music and japa then withdraw from that concentration.

 

ONS Tony.