Guest guest Posted May 14, 2001 Report Share Posted May 14, 2001 Talks With Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj -"I AM THAT" Q: The other day there was a talk about the use by the gnani of animal skins for meditation etc. I was not convinced. It is easy to justify everything by referring to cutom and tradition. Customs can be cruel and tradition corrupt. They explain, but do not justify. M: I never meant to say that lawlessness follows self-realization. A liberated man is law abiding. But his laws are the law's of the real self, not of his society. These he observes, or breaks according to circumstances and necessity. But he will never be fanciful and disorderly. Q: What I cannot accept is justification by custom and habit. M: The difficulty lies in our differing points of view. You speak from the body-mind's. Mine is of the witness. The difference is basic. Q: Still, cruelty is cruelty. M: None compels you to be cruel. Q: Taking advantage of other people's cruelty is cruelty by proxy. M: If you look into the living process closely, you will find cruelty everywhere, for life feeds on life. This is a fact, but it does not make you guilty of being alive. You began a life of cruelty by giving your mother endless trouble. To the last day of your life you will compete for food, shelter, holding on to your body, fighting for its needs, wanting to be secure, in a world of insecurity and death. >From the animal's point of view being killed is not the worst form of dying; surely preferable to sickness and senile decay. The cruelty lies in the motive, not in the fact. Killing hurts the killer, not the killed. Q: Agreed, then one must not accept the services of hunters and butchers. M: Who wants you to accept? Q: You accept. M: That is how YOU see me. How quickly you accuse, condemn, sentence and execute! Why begin with me and not with yourself? Q: A man like you should set an example. M: Are you ready to follow my example? I am dead to the world, I want nothing, not even to live. Be as I am, do as I do. You are judging me by my clothes and food; while I look only at your motives; if you believe to be the body and mind and act on it, you are guilty of the greatest cruelty - cruelty to your own real being. Compared to it all other cruelities do not count. Q: You are taking refuge in the claim you are not the body. But you are in control of the body and responsible for all it does. M: Cool down. I am also against the killing of animals for flesh or fur, but I refuse to give it first place. Vegetarianism is a worthy cause, but not the most urgent, all causes are best served by the man who has returned to his source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2001 Report Share Posted May 14, 2001 , "Joyce Short" <insight@s...> wrote: > Talks With Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj -"I AM THAT" > > Q: The other day there was a talk about the use by the gnani of animal > skins for meditation etc. I was not convinced. It is easy to justify > everything by referring to cutom and tradition. Customs can be cruel and > tradition corrupt. They explain, but do not justify. > > M: I never meant to say that lawlessness follows self-realization. A > liberated man is law abiding. But his laws are the law's of the real self, > not of his society. These he observes, or breaks according to circumstances > and necessity. But he will never be fanciful and disorderly. > > Q: What I cannot accept is justification by custom and habit. > > M: The difficulty lies in our differing points of view. You speak from the > body-mind's. Mine is of the witness. The difference is basic. > > Q: Still, cruelty is cruelty. > > M: None compels you to be cruel. > > Q: Taking advantage of other people's cruelty is cruelty by proxy. > > M: If you look into the living process closely, you will find cruelty > everywhere, for life feeds on life. This is a fact, but it does not make > you guilty of being alive. You began a life of cruelty by giving your > mother endless trouble. To the last day of your life you will compete for > food, shelter, holding on to your body, fighting for its needs, wanting to > be secure, in a world of insecurity and death. From the animal's point of > view being killed is not the worst form of dying; surely preferable to > sickness and senile decay. The cruelty lies in the motive, not in the fact. > Killing hurts the killer, not the killed. > > Q: Agreed, then one must not accept the services of hunters and butchers. > > M: Who wants you to accept? > > Q: You accept. > > M: That is how YOU see me. How quickly you accuse, condemn, sentence and > execute! Why begin with me and not with yourself? > > Q: A man like you should set an example. > > M: Are you ready to follow my example? I am dead to the world, I want > nothing, not even to live. Be as I am, do as I do. You are judging me by > my clothes and food; while I look only at your motives; if you believe to be > the body and mind and act on it, you are guilty of the greatest cruelty - > cruelty to your own real being. Compared to it all other cruelities do not > count. > > Q: You are taking refuge in the claim you are not the body. But you are in > control of the body and responsible for all it does. > > M: Cool down. I am also against the killing of animals for flesh or fur, > but I refuse to give it first place. Vegetarianism is a worthy cause, but > not the most urgent, all causes are best served by the man who has returned > to his source. Namaste Joyce, This is true of course! A jivanmukti may eat meat for he only eats what is put in front of him, like a begging monk, and is eating himself so to speak. It is all unreal. There is no karma involved for his body participating in his own dream so to speak. Hitler was a vegetarian but it didn't help him. Also the realisation that our ego is putting itself above the animal's life, treatment and karma is a step on the road to moksha. For it is the developement of daya or compassion. For new seekers, which most of us are, the subtle essences in the meat are a hinderance to liberation.....according to many including Ramana! The worthiest cause is moksha not vegetarianims per se, unfortunately most humans need to clean their vijnanamayakosa and develop daya, hence vegetarianism. Personally I am vegetarian in the way the Buddha wanted us to be. Ahimsa or no harm to man of beast!!! Om Namah Sivaya....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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