Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 Dear Tony, You wrote: > The DL ate meat for his health like > someone else pointed out on this list... I have not even been lurking for the last little while... so Tony, you have just been very lucky not to have seen me around lately :-) Now, I just happen to unlurk for a second or two, and lo and behold... who is there on his vegetarian hobby horse? Still!... Tony! > Again I have nothing against the DL anymore than I do the Pope, or > any other, they are religious leaders. I will read what they say, but > I watch actions too and then make my own deductions. I don't think > Yogananda and Vivekananda were realised either but I respect and read > their stuff. The 'un-enlightened' and 'un-realized' are certainly not the ones to recognize the 'enlightened' and 'realized'. Come to think of it, the 'un-enlightened' and 'un-realized' have not recognized themselves yet, how can they recognize anything else? Enlightened and realized beings know for themselves that they are enlightened and realized without the slightest hint of a doubt... doubt being the first thing to go when the full light of truth, the utter bliss of unconditional love and the unlimited energy of creative existence are re-covered, re-claimed, re-stored, re-cognized and realized. And.. it is their prerogative to profess that or not... There is no merit nor harm in doing that or not... Merit and harm do not count in the real-ized world. I can as easily as not profess to anybody that I am enlightened and realized. I have professed to you Tony, that I am, to others I have not. So what! So what indeed! Professing or not will not have any greater or lesser impact on a 'seeker'. For example, it has not helped you to overcome your stubbornness to hold yourself back from recognizing who you are. If it would have made a difference, Ramana's non-explicitness on this issue would have gotten you quickly to the end of the path of subjective inquisitiveness. Now, why is it that you think that you are so special that you cannot unconditionally claim enlightenment? It is really not a big thing, it is often done overnight. Do you have better or more valid excuses to hold on longer to your inability than others... Is yours so special so as to show it to us? Exhibiting a scar only lets it stand out more, etc... And why do you think that your insistence on a 'conditio sine qua non' has anything to do with ruling out or in someone else's realization? Have you got anything else to show for than the fact that you, as you profess, ain't got it... and eat no meat? We know that already. Can't you come up with something refreshing and liberating like "Yesterday I had an insight that freed me up a bit...?" I would rather see you enlightened, having no interest in your being not... Why do you have this great interest in telling us whether this or that person (or yourself) is or is not? My dear God, Tony, get off it..., and get on with it... what else are you waiting for than waiting itself? Do you really think that one has to fulfil expectations or answer to conditions first before realization manifests, when... when... when the very evidence of realization is unconditionality? What the heck does eating meat or not eating meat have to do with it? Do you clean your fingernails? Do you know how much harm that might or might not do to bacteria? And, do you know whether the bacteria care? Dismount your hobby-horse Tony, or should I say: "Do not mount your sacred cow?" Love, Wim PS. For every time you clean your fingernails you'll have to clean them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 wimsan.....LOL! endlessly and without effort.....^^~~~~~ further up and further in, white wolfe - Wim Borsboom <aurasphere <> Monday, May 14, 2001 8:24 PM Dismounting Sacred Cows > Dear Tony, > > You wrote: > > The DL ate meat for his health like > > someone else pointed out on this list... > > I have not even been lurking for the last little while... so Tony, you have > just been very lucky not to have seen me around lately :-) > > Now, I just happen to unlurk for a second or two, and lo and behold... who > is there on his vegetarian hobby horse? Still!... Tony! > > > Again I have nothing against the DL anymore than I do the Pope, or > > any other, they are religious leaders. I will read what they say, but > > I watch actions too and then make my own deductions. I don't think > > Yogananda and Vivekananda were realised either but I respect and read > > their stuff. > > The 'un-enlightened' and 'un-realized' are certainly not the ones to > recognize the 'enlightened' and 'realized'. Come to think of it, the > 'un-enlightened' and 'un-realized' have not recognized themselves yet, how > can they recognize anything else? > > Enlightened and realized beings know for themselves that they are > enlightened and realized without the slightest hint of a doubt... doubt > being the first thing to go when the full light of truth, the utter bliss of > unconditional love and the unlimited energy of creative existence are > re-covered, re-claimed, re-stored, re-cognized and realized. > And.. it is their prerogative to profess that or not... > There is no merit nor harm in doing that or not... > Merit and harm do not count in the real-ized world. > > I can as easily as not profess to anybody that I am enlightened and > realized. I have professed to you Tony, that I am, to others I have not. So > what! So what indeed! > > Professing or not will not have any greater or lesser impact on a 'seeker'. > For example, it has not helped you to overcome your stubbornness to hold > yourself back from recognizing who you are. If it would have made a > difference, Ramana's non-explicitness on this issue would have gotten you > quickly to the end of the path of subjective inquisitiveness. > > Now, why is it that you think that you are so special that you cannot > unconditionally claim enlightenment? It is really not a big thing, it is > often done overnight. Do you have better or more valid excuses to hold on > longer to your inability than others... Is yours so special so as to show it > to us? Exhibiting a scar only lets it stand out more, etc... > And why do you think that your insistence on a 'conditio sine qua non' has > anything to do with ruling out or in someone else's realization? Have you > got anything else to > show for than the fact that you, as you profess, ain't got it... and eat no > meat? > > We know that already. Can't you come up with something refreshing and > liberating like "Yesterday I had an insight that freed me up a bit...?" > > I would rather see you enlightened, having no interest in your being not... > Why do you have this great interest in telling us whether this or that > person (or yourself) is or is not? > > My dear God, Tony, get off it..., and get on with it... what else are you > waiting for than waiting itself? > > Do you really think that one has to fulfil expectations or answer to > conditions first before realization manifests, when... when... when the very > evidence of realization is unconditionality? > > What the heck does eating meat or not eating meat have to do with it? Do you > clean your fingernails? Do you know how much harm that might or might not do > to bacteria? And, do you know whether the bacteria care? > > Dismount your hobby-horse Tony, or should I say: "Do not mount your sacred > cow?" > > Love, Wim > > PS. > For every time you clean your fingernails you'll have to clean them again. > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphere@h...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > You wrote: > > The DL ate meat for his health like > > someone else pointed out on this list... > > I have not even been lurking for the last little while... so Tony, you have > just been very lucky not to have seen me around lately :-) > Namaste All et Wim, Wim I am not waiting or worrying about you, so lucky or unlucky doesn't apply. This is a free forum anybody can write. As I have told you before we are on very different approaches. I am not into K and experiences of the dual approach. I just don't get attached to any K experiences, it's prana. You obviously haven't read Ramana's reasons for vegetarianism or you wouldn't comment the way you do. You say that you are a realised person like Ramana. I know at this point that I am not. I wouldn't be writing on here if I was realised. My hobby horse is repeating the teachings of many realised people especially Ramana, who is the only person I can safely think is realised. There are probably only a handful on the entire planet at one time. As I said before here and on the K-list you and I are on different paths, no point in quoting me oranges when I'm into apples. You would be better advised helping the other non realised people here , who may not be sure what path they may be on. No offence!!! Om Namah Sivaya.....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 Tony: > You say that you are a realised person like Ramana. I know at this > point that I am not. I wouldn't be writing on here if I was realised. Dear Tony, The one that is realized and the one that is not, are the same. The one that is writing here and the one that thinks he wouldn't write here, are the same. Dear Tony, there is only life, and it is free to write, and free not to write, and free to realize that it is always free. Love, Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 , "Mirror" <mirror@u...> wrote: > Tony: > > You say that you are a realised person like Ramana. I know at this > > point that I am not. I wouldn't be writing on here if I was realised. > > Dear Tony, > The one that is realized and the one that is not, are the same. > The one that is writing here and the one that thinks he wouldn't write here, > are the same. > Dear Tony, there is only life, > and it is free to write, > and free not to write, > and free to realize that it is always free. > Love, > Mira Namaste Mira, Are you talking relatively, absolutely or convolutedly? Mixing metaphors is fine but mixing absolutes and relatives is very confusing. Relatively there is a huge difference between a realised person and one who is not. Absolutely there isn't for there never was any person or any energy at all. The difference is apparent for it is real whilst one is in it as Sankara said. Hit the wall to see if it is real for you. I do wish people would say which philosophical level they are talking at. Otherwise it is just intellectual gobbledegook, and warm fuzzy feel good stuff. hahah...ONS Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 Tony: > Are you talking relatively, absolutely or convolutedly? Mixing > metaphors is fine but mixing absolutes and relatives is very > confusing. > Relatively there is a huge difference between a realised person and > one who is not. Absolutely there isn't for there never was any person > or any energy at all. > The difference is apparent for it is real whilst one is in it as > Sankara said. Hit the wall to see if it is real for you. > I do wish people would say which philosophical level they are talking > at. Otherwise it is just intellectual gobbledegook, and warm fuzzy > feel good stuff. hahah...ONS Tony. The warm fuzzy feel good stuff is my beloved husband. The relative and the absolute? Two words arising in the same which is neither. I wish I had some kind of a clue which philosophical level I am talking at.... then maybe I could embrace you now with a warm intellectual hug, confusing you enough, to drop the idea that you are confused. Love, Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 , "Mirror" <mirror@u...> wrote: > Tony: > > Are you talking relatively, absolutely or convolutedly? Mixing > > metaphors is fine but mixing absolutes and relatives is very > > confusing. > > Relatively there is a huge difference between a realised person and > > one who is not. Absolutely there isn't for there never was any person > > or any energy at all. > > The difference is apparent for it is real whilst one is in it as > > Sankara said. Hit the wall to see if it is real for you. > > I do wish people would say which philosophical level they are talking > > at. Otherwise it is just intellectual gobbledegook, and warm fuzzy > > feel good stuff. hahah...ONS Tony. > > > The warm fuzzy feel good stuff is my beloved husband. > The relative and the absolute? > Two words arising in the same which is neither. > I wish I had some kind of a clue which philosophical level I am talking > at.... > then maybe I could embrace you now with a warm intellectual hug, > confusing you enough, > to drop the idea that you are confused. > Love, > Mira Namaste Mira, I plump for convoluted!!ONS Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 Hi Tony, >Wim I am not waiting or worrying about you, so lucky or unlucky >doesn't apply. This is a free forum anybody can write. > >As I have told you before we are on very different approaches. I am >not into K and experiences of the dual approach. Then why do you do Kundalini chakra meditation every day? >Dharma you say that I musn't have experienced 'Kundalini'. Nothing >could be farther from the truth. I have experienced it in one way or >another since I was a child. There have been peak experiences with it, >which I already described on this list. Such as a 'powerful', bolt in >my Heart Chakra, which knocked me off my padma asana. Apart from that >I have done preparatory chakra meditation for years with K results all >the time,( Daily). >snip< >You say that you are a realised person like Ramana. I know at this >point that I am not. I wouldn't be writing on here if I was realised. > >My hobby horse is repeating the teachings of many realised people >especially Ramana, who is the only person I can safely think is >realised. Oh is it Ramana now? I seem to remember when it was Sai Baba. > There are probably only a handful on the entire planet at >one time. As I said before here and on the K-list you and I are on >different paths, no point in quoting me oranges when I'm into apples. >You would be better advised helping the other non realised people here It's no use, Wim. He's already decided that no one on this list can possibly be realised, because a realised person would not be able to write email! )))) Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 Tony: > I plump for convoluted!!ONS Tony. I always loved origami :-) Isn't it wonderful? All those amazing shapes you can conjure up out of flatness.... Love, Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 , Dharma <deva@L...> wrote: > Hi Tony, > > >Wim I am not waiting or worrying about you, so lucky or unlucky > >doesn't apply. This is a free forum anybody can write. > > > >As I have told you before we are on very different approaches. I am > >not into K and experiences of the dual approach. > > Then why do you do Kundalini chakra meditation every day? > > > Oh is it Ramana now? I seem to remember when it was Sai Baba. > > > There are probably only a handful on the entire planet at > >one time. As I said before here and on the K-list you and I are on > >different paths, no point in quoting me oranges when I'm into apples. > >You would be better advised helping the other non realised people here > > It's no use, Wim. He's already decided that no one on this list can > possibly be realised, because a realised person would not be able to write > email! )))) > > Love, > Dharma Namaste Dharma, I'm not attached to K experience, I observe its cleansing role prior to my real meditations. I fully appreciate its preliminary status. I've always followed Ramana's teaching even when I was with Sai Baba. He even encouraged people to read Godman's book, believe it or not. Ramana was never my Guru though, using that term strictly. I have no Guru other than my Higher Self. Sai Baba's teachings were very good, they weren't his anyway. Many were lifted from the pages of Vivekananda, errors complete. I left him because of the fraud, conjuring and pedophilia not because of the teachings. Or rather he wasn't living up to the teachings. I was deluded into thinking he was an avatar that's all. A lot of people fall into cults and such for one reason or another. It was a learning experience that's for sure. I am much more circumspect now. Yes it is unlikely that there is a Ramana on this list. But you never know!!!The sayings of Ramana are written by others, he wasn't into that. Most realised persons do not write at all. Om Namah Sivaya....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 Hey Tony! >Yes it is unlikely that there is a Ramana on this list. But you never >know!!! That would be a good line to paste up over your computer... "You never know!!!" Keep up the good work. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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