the value of concepts

[Guest guest]

"I believe the best explanation of the value of concepts ,

is that given by Ramana Maharshi .

He said ,

"A concept is useful only so long as you use it

as you would a thorn to dig out another thorn

which is embedded in your foot . Then , when

the imbedded thorn is removed, you throw both

thorns away."

 

That is all a concept is good for ; to remove

an obstructing concept.

When the understanding happens , these words

and concepts are discarded . If you hold on

to them , these words and concepts become like

cancer. They gnaw at your insides .

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Consciousness Speaks

Ramesh Balsekar

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[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki,

>"I believe the best explanation of the value of concepts ,

>is that given by Ramana Maharshi .

>He said ,

> "A concept is useful only so long as you use it

> as you would a thorn to dig out another thorn

> which is embedded in your foot . Then , when

> the imbedded thorn is removed, you throw both

> thorns away."

>

>That is all a concept is good for ; to remove

>an obstructing concept.

>When the understanding happens , these words

>and concepts are discarded . If you hold on

>to them , these words and concepts become like

>cancer. They gnaw at your insides .

 

There is no thinking without concepts. You really could not write email

without concepts.

 

The only way I can understand this is through the meditation experience

I've mentioned... if I notice a cloud of thought-forms around my head, I

sweep them up with a hand and throw them away. But this doesn't erase them

from my memory banks... it's like throwing away copies. The originals are

still in the memory banks... and so I can still think and function in the

world with other people.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki,

>Yes, that's right,there is no thinking without concepts . Ramesh was

>explaining that in order to talk about Truth we use concepts on the way

>,and actually this is what happens when we say God,...,when we write

>emails..., we are conceptualizing all the time.

>

>Ultimately Truth needs no concepts to describe it ,

 

Well, we do need concepts to describe anything... but what you mean is:

>Ramana said that one [a guru] can only indicate it.

 

That's all we can do... indicate, point to.. and that is also inadequate.

>Actually Ramesh warned his audience that he had to use concepts to explain

 

Yes. If the ultimate Truth or the All were something we see, then we could

describe what it looks like. If it were something we hear, then we could

describe what it sounds like... or try to make a somewhat similar sound.

If it were an idea, then we could seek the best words, symbols, concepts to

express it. But it is none of these. It is nothing... nothing in

particular. And it is All that is... in potential. There is nothing to

see, nothing to hear, no one to see or hear... The experience of the All

is completely outside the realm of all other experience. Our words,

symbols, concepts are all based on the sights, sounds, experiences, of this

manifest world. And they are useless to talk about the Ground of Being.

>There are names but not nature in words.

>Nameless indeed is the source of creation...

> - Tao te Ching

 

How shall we name the nameless? How shall we describe That from which all

else arises at each instant?

 

We either say nothing and just smile... or we use words, symbols,

concepts... and try to point, try to give hints.

 

 

But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with words and symbols and

concepts. We need them to live in the manifested world. That's what

they're FOR. ))))

>You see how many words and concepts we need to understand each other by

>an email,

 

And it's good that we have a lot of them and can communicate well. Maybe

someday we'll evolve really good telepathy. But until then, let's use

the words. Do we have a choice? )))

 

Love,

Dharma

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