Guest guest Posted May 19, 2001 Report Share Posted May 19, 2001 >I like this list because it is free and not so full of psychoses, >deviancy etc like the K-list. It is hard for people to see the wood >for the trees. > >ONS Tony. Hi Tony :-) I like this list too :-) Do you ever notice how it is the other guy who is more noticeably deviant? :-) Would that all trees are wood . . . Judgemental, psychotic, deviant Lobster (free tree with every wood) Dendraphiliacs: eXXoDeus- (send a blank email to the above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 Dear > I don't know who you are talking about but it isn't me!!! Not talking ABOUT anybody, talking TO you! > I told you before we are on different paths > its apples and oranges. Just you and me, not apples and oranges..., there are none... When you see those kind of distinctions you are a duelling dualist.... And about that path....? I already answered you back: "There is no path..." Do you actually read, or do you just react? > I'm not into all this mind stuff and > K machines that you invent. Where did you get that from? I did not invent anything. I do use a pretty sophisticated and novel computerized biofeedback apparatus... to get AROUND the mind stuff. To help people re-rooting themselves in reality. > It is all diversion and bondage. > I am into 'Who am I?' That is right. You are into the question: "Ko Ham)?" You are not into the answer: "So Ham!" That is what I wrote to YOU in that last email. Tony, read... it is especially written for you... > and that is it, nothing else. > All else is just amusing ourselves > on this list due to karma. Tony, you just don't get it and will not get it until you are willing to get it... You will get it when you stop reacting and countering. So far you have only been rehashing what you already got, which did not get you anywhere... while you are trying to get somewhere. There is nowhere to go, no path, no question... Do not repeat the question, pick up the answer... You will find it as soon as you stop on this un-ending path... You are a most stubborn specimen... Whatever you wrote up to now, most here on this list have already known, and... left most of that behind. They are suggesting you do the same... I bet you, if you could have been with Ramana, you would have countered and resisted as much.as you do here. You do not listen to and absorb anything that is presented. You know why? Because you actually haven't even started to listen to yourself... You know why? Because you do not trust yourself. It is all still quotes that you come up with... no authentic word from yet... I am harsh on purpose in what I write here, you have acquired a thick hide and a thick skull... That is not Tony, that is pseudo Tony... It is all because you do not trust, you still think that they (?) are out to get you, to dupe you... as you have been duped before. (Not only by SB). The past is not a good model for the future... especially when you keep projecting your past ahead of you while keeping to the path. I tell you, everyone on this list can be trusted, you too (that is YOU, not Pseudo Tony.) Do you ever wonder why we do not want to let you go? We love you. So many here recognize our old pseudo selves in you and see the 'Full Tony' just around the corner. We trust you (1) because you do no harm... (2) because we cannot be harmed...(3) harm is illusion. (4) we trust that you will get this... as we did get it... The path and what you are looking for while on it.... It is not at all about what you think you are looking for. It is not at all about what you expect to find. Reality is of a real nature, not the nature of what you think it ought to be... What you have assumed yourself, life and truth to be up to now, is what is to be let go off... As you are holding on to those concepts and beliefs, you stay in what you call "karma"... you can safely drop anything you have believed in up to now... there is nobody to take advantage of you... You asked me: >> You are the realised one, so you tell me...... You asked me to tell you some, and I did... but do you recognize yourself yet? You must have thought that I thought that you were facetious... You may have been, but I do not mind because behind such a stance is a real Tony who really wants the answer... as you are readying yourself to stop the questioning. Any idea why you cling so to Ramana? Because he is not alive... that seems less dangerous to you... Dead people cannot say to you what we say to you. You know, you can actually trust to live with living people, living stuff... Are you enlightened...? Ok, then get off the path that prevents your enlightenment. Enlightenment is not a big thing, it is simplicity itself. It is not there where you are looking at the moment, It is not at all that what you think enlightenment should be. You will know it, when you find it. After you have given up all the expectations of what it should be... Your descriptions and prescriptions of enlightenment are iatrogenic... How seriously can I tell you that I am serious... Take me serious... There is no path. At the moment there is you and me. I am Wim, no apple no orange. You are Tony, no orange no apple... Just you and me... But why are you looking to the side? To see if there is a way around me... ? That way around is the path that you think you are on... You will keep running into me... Now when you find the buddha on the road stop .... and kill him... .... eat him alive... You know the story of the travellers to Emmaus? They met Jesus on the road, and found it interesting to converse with him... Only when they where sitting down... and when there was no way out... did they see who he was., as they ate the bread he was breaking... they ate him alive... Take a bite off me Tony... > I like this list because it is free and > not so full of psychoses, > deviancy etc like the K-list. That is right, so take full advantage of it! > It is hard for people to see the wood for the trees. That is why I so often point out to you to get to your senses... all five... till that sixth one kicks in... Love talking to you Tony, Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 Dear Mira, I just send the following to someone else who wrote: > You must have more than the patience of a saint > to continue to reach out to Tony the way you do. That patience is to repay (Is that a good way to say it?) the patience that was extended to me by my guides through life and after-life. That patience comes as well from the patience that was extended to me by the wonderful people on the K-list and this Satsangh... That patience comes also from the patience I learned to have with myself... Patience is no sweat anymore, I do wonder sometimes though: " Why all this bliss for me?" Even before this glorious bliss, I was already happy enough... I did really not expect any of this. Sometimes, (the way Einstein used to do it) I jokingly have a conversation with the Good God, "Oh please, dear God, give some of this abundance to others, I have enough already, really!" God's answer is always something like this: "I'm trying to do that, Wim. I used to think I have to do it all by myself, one human at a time, me being so almighty and having time on my hand. But one day I found out that it does not work that way, I created more than I expected, (a side-effect of divine almightiness). Luckily I found a solution, well, I'm supposed to be creative, so I decided to, once in a while, dump loads of the stuff, love and so on, on just a few beings. Yep, haphazardly, I'm leaving it all up to chance. I used to be a such control freak, another side effect of being almighty, but now I just trust... You know, people trusting me and having faith in me is not enough... I had learn to trust in people. Why questioning my own creation, eh? Delegating is way nicer, gives me time to tend to eternity, hehehe. "It's no good sacrificing yourself!" who told me that again? Oh yes, JC did. That guy, I tell you, learned the hard way... Anyway on and off, dropping these loads of abundance on a few lucky ones, (I had to use chance, I don't like selecting and judging, judging being less fair than a fair chance) well, that unburdened me from my too mighty might. I leave it pretty well all up to you people now. And, given time, and there is plenty of that, everyone will get a turn. Oh, and when you guys run out of time, there is always eternity, so there is no risk, really." Love, Wim > Wim, just want to let you know how much I appreciate the love that you share > in this conversation. Your clarity is so evident, your words leave nothing > to be guessed, and your care radiates through the entire post. This is the > power of humility over arrogance... embrace over rejection.... unity over > separation. Thanks for being a wonderful teacher. > Love, > Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 Wim, just want to let you know how much I appreciate the love that you share in this conversation. Your clarity is so evident, your words leave nothing to be guessed, and your care radiates through the entire post. This is the power of humility over arrogance... embrace over rejection.... unity over separation. Thanks for being a wonderful teacher. Love, Mira > Dear > > > I don't know who you are talking about but it isn't me!!! > > Not talking ABOUT anybody, talking TO you! > > > I told you before we are on different paths > > its apples and oranges. > > Just you and me, not apples and oranges..., there are none... > When you see those kind of distinctions you are a duelling dualist.... > > And about that path....? I already answered you back: "There is no path..." > Do you actually read, or do you just react? > > > I'm not into all this mind stuff and > > K machines that you invent. > > Where did you get that from? I did not invent anything. > I do use a pretty sophisticated and novel computerized biofeedback > apparatus... to get AROUND the mind stuff. To help people re-rooting > themselves in reality. > > > It is all diversion and bondage. > > I am into 'Who am I?' > > That is right. > You are into the question: "Ko Ham)?" > You are not into the answer: "So Ham!" > > That is what I wrote to YOU in that last email. > Tony, read... it is especially written for you... > > > and that is it, nothing else. > > All else is just amusing ourselves > > on this list due to karma. > > Tony, you just don't get it and will not get it until you are willing to get > it... > You will get it when you stop reacting and countering. So far you have only > been rehashing what you already got, which did not get you anywhere... while > you are trying to get somewhere. > There is nowhere to go, no path, no question... > > Do not repeat the question, pick up the answer... You will find it as soon > as you stop on this un-ending path... > > You are a most stubborn specimen... > Whatever you wrote up to now, most here on this list have already known, > and... left most of that behind. They are suggesting you do the same... > I bet you, if you could have been with Ramana, you would have countered and > resisted as much.as you do here. You do not listen to and absorb anything > that is presented. > You know why? Because you actually haven't even started to listen to > yourself... > You know why? Because you do not trust yourself. > It is all still quotes that you come up with... no authentic word from Tony > yet... > > I am harsh on purpose in what I write here, you have acquired a thick hide > and a thick skull... That is not Tony, that is pseudo Tony... > > It is all because you do not trust, you still think that they (?) are out to > get you, to dupe you... as you have been duped before. (Not only by SB). > The past is not a good model for the future... especially when you keep > projecting your past ahead of you while keeping to the path. > > I tell you, everyone on this list can be trusted, you too (that is YOU, not > Pseudo Tony.) > Do you ever wonder why we do not want to let you go? We love you. So many > here recognize our old pseudo selves in you and see the 'Full Tony' just > around the corner. > > We trust you (1) because you do no harm... (2) because we cannot be > harmed...(3) harm is illusion. > (4) we trust that you will get this... as we did get it... > > The path and what you are looking for while on it.... > It is not at all about what you think you are looking for. > It is not at all about what you expect to find. > Reality is of a real nature, not the nature of what you think it ought to > be... > What you have assumed yourself, life and truth to be up to now, is what is > to be let go off... > As you are holding on to those concepts and beliefs, you stay in what you > call "karma"... you can safely drop anything you have believed in up to > now... there is nobody to take advantage of you... > > You asked me: > >> You are the realised one, so you tell me...... > > You asked me to tell you some, and I did... but do you recognize yourself > yet? > > You must have thought that I thought that you were facetious... > You may have been, but I do not mind because behind such a stance is a real > Tony who really wants the answer... as you are readying yourself to stop the > questioning. > > Any idea why you cling so to Ramana? > Because he is not alive... that seems less dangerous to you... > Dead people cannot say to you what we say to you. > You know, you can actually trust to live with living people, living stuff... > > Are you enlightened...? > Ok, then get off the path that prevents your enlightenment. > Enlightenment is not a big thing, it is simplicity itself. > It is not there where you are looking at the moment, > It is not at all that what you think enlightenment should be. > You will know it, when you find it. > After you have given up all the expectations of what it should be... > Your descriptions and prescriptions of enlightenment are iatrogenic... > > How seriously can I tell you that I am serious... > Take me serious... > > There is no path. > At the moment there is you and me. > I am Wim, no apple no orange. > You are Tony, no orange no apple... > Just you and me... > But why are you looking to the side? > To see if there is a way around me... ? > That way around is the path that you think you are on... > You will keep running into me... > > Now when you find the buddha on the road stop > ... and kill him... > ... eat him alive... > > You know the story of the travellers to Emmaus? They met Jesus on the road, > and found it interesting to converse with him... Only when they where > sitting down... and when there was no way out... did they see who he was., > as they ate the bread he was breaking... they ate him alive... > Take a bite off me Tony... > > > I like this list because it is free and > > not so full of psychoses, > > deviancy etc like the K-list. > > That is right, so take full advantage of it! > > > It is hard for people to see the wood for the trees. > > That is why I so often point out to you to get to your senses... all five... > till that sixth one kicks in... > > Love talking to you Tony, > Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 Dear Tony, > I can only *connect* (huh? Wim) with this, > Brahman is real, the world is unreal, > all is Brahman... Who's saying that? and also What are you saying? and again Who's saying that? And to stick with the semantics, let us also for a change use simple logic: Brahman is real all is Brahman ergo... the world is also real. You insertion of "the world is unreal" proves that you believe in illusion more than in reality, the reality that you just asserted... Do you actually have a problem with Brahman? Could that be? Embrace 'all' unconditionally and the problem goes 'poof!'. Who duped you Tony? Who caused you to see the world as unreal? Who was that manipulator? About two years ago I asked you a similar question... > I know from experience and the teachings > that indulging the senses is like pouring oil on a fire. > Detachment and Love and Surrender are the only way to go You apparently do not see what a mixed bag of confused statements that is what you just wrote... Surrender does not include detachment, love does not exclude the senses. And what is wrong with pouring oil on a fire... What happened ? It is no use to go into denial. Who is it, who you saw extinguishing the fire of love? Who is it, who tried to extinguish your fire of love? Who is it, who could not surrender and denied you surrender? Who is it, who stopped your surrender and told you that it was indulgence? Who Tony, who is it? Give that person a name... (It is not you, I'll give that away)... who then is it? Who is that person who prevents you from the ability to answer the question of "Who am I?" > Brahman is real, the world is unreal, That sentence shows your non-advaitan tendency. Who kicked you out of reality? When you do not get the fallacy of that sentence... you ARE upholding duality as under a spell. No wonder you are giving yourself such a hard time..., who gave you such a hard time to begin with? You are driving a car and you are saying that you should be walking. You are embodied and you are saying that you should not be. You are in this world and you are saying that you should not. Who told you in the first place that you should not be...? > I can only connect with this,.... And why the need to connect, overcome the separation that you keep pointing at and you find that the connection was never broken... only threatened. Who threatened you? With what? Who was that manipulator who taught you manipulation. Who duped you? Who duped you into duping others... You are not too old to answer that... and no, you are not beyond that... you are simply in denial, still under a some kind of spell. The fact that you cannot come up with the answer to who you are is because someone still has a hold over you... Find out who that was... and you recover who you are... You are in this satsangh... what for... Do you like to be flogged or something? Do you adhere to the statement that if it isn't painful it isn't good enough? > I don't want to answer every post, You don't have to, you only have to get them. > but let me say this. It would be a good idea if > posters didn't mix their relatives with the absolutes. We are not posters, we are living warm-blooded beings, relatives in the absolute (hehehe) > if posters didn't mix their relatives with the absolutes. Is that what you see? Mixing their relatives with the absolutes? How long will you remain a duelling dualist? > In the meantime like you I amuse myself here > with reactions and semantics That is not nice at all Tony, are you by any chance manipulative? > for it helps to keep one's mind on the general subject at least. Glad to be of service, how long do you think we can amuse you? It is OK, I'll be there when you need me. > but I will stick to my sadhana of 'Who am I', Do not practice asking, start answering... So Tony, who are you? And Tony, who prevented you from being you? > and purifying my awareness sheath or diamond body I know you have a hard skin and that you wear a hard hat, but that you are as hard as diamond... hehehe! :-) Hey, Tony let's both laugh about that... So glad I could amuse you. (Oh Tony!) I love you, Wim PS. Again Tony, please take me serious... PPS. Manipulations (check them out, you will be surprised) will not get you anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphere@h...> wrote: > Dear > > > I don't know who you are talking about but it isn't me!!! > > Not talking ABOUT anybody, talking TO you! > Any idea why you cling so to Ramana? > Because he is not alive... that seems less dangerous to you... > Dead people cannot say to you what we say to you. > You know, you can actually trust to live with living people, living stuff... > > Are you enlightened...? > Ok, then get off the path that prevents your enlightenment. > Enlightenment is not a big thing, it is simplicity itself. > It is not there where you are looking at the moment, > It is not at all that what you think enlightenment should be. > You will know it, when you find it. Namaste Wim, I can only connect with this, Brahman is real, the world is unreal, all is Brahman......ONS Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 Dear Tony, You wrote: > I'll meet you eventually perhaps when I next come to Vancouver Island. That sounds a bit tentative, but OK. I definitively look forward to meeting you. > I have found a way to find water so there is no real need for me to go > around digging other wells all around the place. While I am free for the taking there is also nothing to get from me. So do not worry Tony.... I will not negatively influence your authenticity... At worst your authenticity will stay the same... hehehe > Yes I have a habit and it doesn't come from insecurity as such but > from the fact that I learned meditation and mind control in the Hindu > fashion. I'm quite comfortable with that and I understand it well. > Giving the mind something to do, the monkey mind. Yeah, love that monkey mind... The monkey mind is so much closer to the mind of a monk than the human mind is to a mind of a monkey. > Even Maharaj sang bhajans and no > doubt Ramana participated as well. You have to consider that they sing FROM celebration, not in order to celebrate. These guys sing FROM bliss, not to bring it about. Krishna, Ramakrishna... same thing... same here... Consider that you have that too. That would be a bit of a turn around in your self appreciation but that does not hurt. It is way more helpful to consider yourself that way than to think that you sing as a sadhana practice in order to reach concentration... I know you have your thoughts about bliss... but that is because you still see bliss from the outside in, as a veil that might prevent you from reaching the answer to who you are... Once you are, you sing automatically, authentically, directly, you can't even help it...This singing from the core is not attachment, as in this singing, songs detach themselves from you and fly in the wind, while unbeknownst to you, or surreptitiously and un-expected they suck some hard core attachments out of you. > It is all part of my preparation for concentration and one > pointedness, but my meditation includes no form, after the mantras. You see, Tony, Ramana types, do not concentrate or focus, they do not want to reach one pointedness... They do the opposite, they have probably done so from the very beginning. Many of these people never even did any sadhana, if anything they unpracticed, they emanate, they free up, they are from the centre... Consider that these great guys do everything the other way around... it is easier... How do you think they got it so quickly, they found the easy way not the sadhana way... Consider that anything postitive comes from the 'I', everything worthwhile comes from the self and as it is expressed it detaches stuck-on-negativity from you ... Oh could I make you see this... > I don't think Ramana has any fast rules on this and anyway he is not > my Guru, ... Of course not, you are his equal, that is what he tries to have you discover... In equality and mutual appreciation, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphere@h...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > You wrote: > > > I'll meet you eventually perhaps when I next come to Vancouver Island. > > That sounds a bit tentative, but OK. > I definitively look forward to meeting you. > > > I have found a way to find water so there is no real need for me to go > > around digging other wells all around the place. > > While I am free for the taking there is also nothing to get from me. > So do not worry Tony.... > I will not negatively influence your authenticity... > At worst your authenticity will stay the same... hehehe > > > Yes I have a habit and it doesn't come from insecurity as such but > > from the fact that I learned meditation and mind control in the Hindu > > fashion. I'm quite comfortable with that and I understand it well. > > Giving the mind something to do, the monkey mind. > > Yeah, love that monkey mind... > The monkey mind is so much closer to the mind of a monk than the human mind > is to a mind of a monkey. > > > Even Maharaj sang bhajans and no > > doubt Ramana participated as well. > > You have to consider that they sing FROM celebration, > not in order to celebrate. > These guys sing FROM bliss, not to bring it about. > Krishna, Ramakrishna... same thing... same here... > Consider that you have that too. > That would be a bit of a turn around in your self appreciation but that does > not hurt. > It is way more helpful to consider yourself that way than to think that you > sing as a sadhana practice in order to reach concentration... > > I know you have your thoughts about bliss... but that is because you still > see bliss from the outside in, as a veil that might prevent you from > reaching the answer to who you are... Once you are, you sing automatically, > authentically, directly, you can't even help it...This singing from the core > is not attachment, as in this singing, songs detach themselves from you and > fly in the wind, while unbeknownst to you, or surreptitiously and > un-expected they suck some hard core attachments out of you. > > > It is all part of my preparation for concentration and one > > pointedness, but my meditation includes no form, after the mantras. > > You see, Tony, Ramana types, do not concentrate or focus, they do not want > to reach one pointedness... They do the opposite, they have probably done so > from the very beginning. Many of these people never even did any sadhana, if > anything they unpracticed, they emanate, they free up, they are from the > centre... > > Consider that these great guys do everything the other way around... it is > easier... > How do you think they got it so quickly, they found the easy way not the > sadhana way... > Consider that anything postitive comes from the 'I', everything worthwhile > comes from the self and as it is expressed it detaches stuck-on-negativity > from you ... > > Oh could I make you see this... > > > I don't think Ramana has any fast rules on this and anyway he is not > > my Guru, ... > > Of course not, you are his equal, that is what he tries to have you > discover... > > In equality and mutual appreciation, Wim Namast Wim, Yes Wim I have experienced Bliss and these experiences happen but I'm consciously not attached to them. I don't see them as outside in, but as a part of the way in. With regard to Ramana, I do like his teachings, but I also read Maharaj, other Vedantists, and also Buddhist texts, its my interest. With regard to sages singing Bhajans, mantras etc, I don't know why they did it, anymore than you know why I like them. I use them as a preparatory step to dharana, they are effective mood enhancers. In the end my meditation is formless, oh and I even do some hatha yoga exercises as part of my preparation with bhajans of course. Om Namah Sivaya.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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