Guest guest Posted May 19, 2001 Report Share Posted May 19, 2001 Question 4: What is the best way of dealing withdesires, with a view to getting rid of them -satisfying them or suppressing them? Bhagavan: If a desire can be got rid of by satisfyingit, there will be no harm in satisfying such a desire.But desires generally are not eradicated bysatisfaction. Trying to root them out that way is likepouring spirits to quench fire. At the same time, theproper remedy is not forcible suppression, since suchrepression is bound to react sooner or later intoforceful surging up with undesirable consequences. Theproper way to get rid of a desire is to find out "Whogets the desire? What is its source?'' When this isfound, the desire is rooted out and it will neveragain emerge or grow. Small desires such as the desireto eat, drink and sleep and attend to calls of nature,though these may also be classed among desires, youcan safely satisfy. They will not implant vasanas inyour mind, necessitating further birth. Thoseactivities are just necessary to carry on life and arenot likely to develop or leave behind vasanas ortendencies. As a general rule, therefore, there is noharm in satisfying a desire where the satisfactionwill not lead to further desires by creating vasanasin the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2001 Report Share Posted May 19, 2001 it is more than curious that so many 'teachers'....almost always old men with grey beards....buy into the unhappy philosophy that denial is good.....i.e., that the material world and all its joys are evil.....pain is here....sure....suffering is a projduct of false mental conceptualizations.....denial of sexual desire is a not a form of liberation but just one more false mask that must be removed.....if we all start buying into this nonsense we condemn ourselves, as did the shakers, to extinction....Teilhard de Chardin had it right....he had no use for a God who was not involved in the material universe at the ground level.....that is the gift of Christianity.....Jesus the Christ.....is the god-man....stradleling the realms of pure nothingness and pure somethingness.....non-duality embraces both....embrace the beloved......the Divine is Everywhere....there is not spirit without the flesh....there is no flesh without spirit....if you seek to escape pain.....physical death is an option.....if you seek to escape suffering.....embrace the world as a child.....whoever heard of an adolescent who did not rejoice in his or her sexuality......i embrace the beloved....my face is stained by her juice....i will dance with joy until it time for this self to stop dancing.....when i grow old i will sit in the sun and laugh as i watch in joy my children and grand-children dance the dance that i have danced before them....neither attached nor non-attached.....all things appropriate to the time and space in which they are appropriate.....freedom is recognition of what is and is not proper in a given context.......old men should not try to make young lovers be like themselves......but nevertheless they atttempt to do it all the time.....it is called patriarchy.....sometime paternalism......i embrace the feminine aspect of my masculine soul......may a new age of matriarchy return and deliver us from too much patriarchy....^^~~~~ i embrace my beloved mirror, white wolfe further up and further in, white wolfe Question 4: What is the best way of dealing withdesires, with a view to getting rid of them -satisfying them or suppressing them? Bhagavan: If a desire can be got rid of by satisfyingit, there will be no harm in satisfying such a desire.But desires generally are not eradicated bysatisfaction. Trying to root them out that way is likepouring spirits to quench fire. At the same time, theproper remedy is not forcible suppression, since suchrepression is bound to react sooner or later intoforceful surging up with undesirable consequences. Theproper way to get rid of a desire is to find out "Whogets the desire? What is its source?'' When this isfound, the desire is rooted out and it will neveragain emerge or grow. Small desires such as the desireto eat, drink and sleep and attend to calls of nature,though these may also be classed among desires, youcan safely satisfy. They will not implant vasanas inyour mind, necessitating further birth. Thoseactivities are just necessary to carry on life and arenot likely to develop or leave behind vasanas ortendencies. As a general rule, therefore, there is noharm in satisfying a desire where the satisfactionwill not lead to further desires by creating vasanasin the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 Hi Vicki, >A time might come in one's life when the desire for Truth >and for knowing one's true nature is stronger than any other desire. When it wells up from the roots of your being, when it becomes your single purpose, it is more than any desire, and it is unstoppable. I love one of Kierkegaard's book titles: _Purity of Heart Is to Will One Thing_. When you WILL one thing, then nothing can stand in your way. Blessings, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 , Dharma <deva@L...> wrote: > Hi Vicki, > > >A time might come in one's life when the desire for Truth > >and for knowing one's true nature is stronger than any other desire. > > When it wells up from the roots of your being, when it becomes your single > purpose, it is more than any desire, and it is unstoppable. > > I love one of Kierkegaard's book titles: _Purity of Heart Is to Will One > Thing_. When you WILL one thing, then nothing can stand in your way. > > Blessings, > Dharma Namaste Dharma, It is better not to will at all. For who wills but the ego, it is a strong ego function. It may achieve but then so do leaders. It is better to find out who wills. Unless by will one means concentration prior to meditation or spirituality and not just a mundane desire.ONS Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 Dear Tony.. If you would re-read Dharma's words here, that purity of willing one thing was already specifically stated to refer to "the desire for Truth and for knowing one's true nature" as one's single purpose in life. So wouldn't doing so be a dedicated inquiry into one's true nature... quite a bit more than just meditation. Her whole post isn't about just "any mundane desire". Having actually read that book of Kierkegard's, he isn't talking about ego desires either, more like the verse where Jesus says, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God". This is about understanding context, it's not like the very words will and desire can only refer to ego. What is bhakti but the desire for God? Love, Gloria - Tony O'Clery Sunday, May 20, 2001 12:59 PM Re: the best way of dealing with desires , Dharma <deva@L...> wrote:> Hi Vicki,> > >A time might come in one's life when the desire for Truth> >and for knowing one's true nature is stronger than any other desire.> > When it wells up from the roots of your being, when it becomes your single> purpose, it is more than any desire, and it is unstoppable.> > I love one of Kierkegaard's book titles: _Purity of Heart Is to Will One> Thing_. When you WILL one thing, then nothing can stand in your way.> > Blessings,> DharmaNamaste Dharma,It is better not to will at all. For who wills but the ego, it is a strong ego function. It may achieve but then so do leaders. It is better to find out who wills. Unless by will one means concentration prior to meditation or spirituality and not just a mundane desire.ONS Tony./join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 Tony: It is better not to will at all. For who wills but the ego, it is a strong ego function. It may achieve but then so do leaders. It is better to find out who wills. Unless by will one means concentration prior to meditation or spirituality and not just a mundane desire.ONS Tony. You seem so convinced of yourself Tony. So convinced that there is an ego that wills, separate from who you are. Truly there is no separation anywhere. No separate self, no separate fake ego to do things and will things in order to lure the real self into some kind of dreamy unreality. There is only reality, and it includes everything. It includes every tiny little function of what you call ego. It includes all your body fluids. It includes everything you say is illusion. It includes all your concepts and ideas about what it is. You cannot separate yourself from reality to evaluate and determine what is real and what is not. Reality only is. It is not divided up into ego and some other stuff that more real than ego. Love, Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 , "Gloria Lee" <glee@i...> wrote: > Dear Tony.. > > If you would re-read Dharma's words here, that purity of willing one thing was already specifically stated to refer to "the desire for Truth and for knowing one's true nature" as one's single purpose in life. So wouldn't doing so be a dedicated inquiry into one's true nature... quite a bit more than just meditation. Her whole post isn't about just "any mundane desire". > > Having actually read that book of Kierkegard's, he isn't talking about ego desires either, more like the verse where Jesus says, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God". This is about understanding context, it's not like the very words will and desire can only refer to ego. What is bhakti but the desire for God? > > Love, Gloria Namaste Gloria, I was talking about 'will', for that was mentioned. However to quote a text. 'Among those sheaths he intelligent sheath vijnanamayakosa which is endowed with the power of vidya is the agent; the mental sheath or manomayakosa which is endowed with will-power is the instrument; and the vital sheath or pranamayakosa which is endowed with activity is the product. This division has been made according to their respective functions, these three together constitute the subtle body. # 89. Vedantasara of Sadananda Yogindra by Swami Nikhilananda. Advaita Ashram, Calcutta. My feeling is that surrender of the ego is much more effective than using the will of the lower mind. This way the higher mind does the acion. Om Namah Sivaya...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 Hi Tony, Wim has great patience. It seems that you really don't read, you just react... you see a word you can focus on for a reply, and you take off. Glo wrote to you, explaining more about my post... and then said: >snip< > >This is about >understanding context, it's not like the very words will and desire >can only refer to ego. > >snip< And you began your answer with: >I was talking about 'will', for that was mentioned. You really didn't take time to understand what she said. Just grabbed a familiar word and started off. >However to quote a >text. I don't know if this block of writing constitutes a general framework that you use in your thinking... or if it was just something handy to use because it linked the word "will" with the mental body or sheath. >'Among those sheaths he intelligent sheath vijnanamayakosa which is >endowed with the power of vidya is the agent; the mental sheath or >manomayakosa which is endowed with will-power is the instrument; and >the vital sheath or pranamayakosa which is endowed with activity is >the product. This division has been made according to their respective >functions, these three together constitute the subtle body. # 89. >Vedantasara of Sadananda Yogindra by Swami Nikhilananda. Advaita >Ashram, Calcutta. > >My feeling is that surrender of the ego is much more effective than >using the will of the lower mind. This way the higher mind does the >acion. I don't think you grasped what the swami was saying. Did you read this one all through and try to understand? I'm not sure there's any point to answering you, since you really don't try to understand the answer. But since many others have read your post... This paragraph is obviously taken out of context. He is referring to something he has just been explaining, and he says that in regard to that, whatever it was, the vijnanamayakosa is the agent, the manomayakosa is the instrument, and the pranamayakosa is the product. In the course of saying that, he does refer to the "will-power" of the mental body. And that is a very different thing from the WILL, which is of spirit. You know when people say you should have more will power to do something? And then maybe you say okay, and then you're saying to yourself, "I must, I must, I must..." Really working at it. Not the same thing as WILL. I'm sending as an attachment DK's diagram of the seven planes of our solar system. This IS a model that I often use in my thinking and writing, though it is not the only model we can use. The word "will" appears at least twice on it, so look carefully. If anyone can't read the words in the graphic, I can send them in text form. Next I'll send one that is rather different (but doesn't constitute any contradiction to the first one). It's Lama Govinda's model of the bodies. Since the TIbetan system uses a model of five major chakras, in which the lowest two are considered as one, and the Forehead Chakra (ajna) is considered as part of Crown Chakra (sahasrara), this model shows five bodies or sheaths. I'll send his text with it. Sorry if it's a bit out of context, but it's good stuff. Love, Dharma Attachment: (image/gif) Planes.GIF [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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