Non dual thinking only ends up with a non dual thinking.

[Guest guest]

Namaste All,

 

I realise that when vegetarianism is mentioned all the guilt, anger

and the feeling of being offended arise. I do not wish to castigate

the flesh eaters per se. All my posts on this subject have all been

about purification.

 

There's none so deaf as those who have selected hearing, ego desires

and addictions.

 

There is a natural impulse to the rise of consciousness, even in the

animals, and human animals. However to attune the varies levels of

body and mind requires purification of samskaras and other vibrations.

Otherwise true above the lower mind awareness doesn't arise.

 

All non dual thought will do will possible arive at a place of vacant

placidity or quiet. This laya is mistaken by many so called

transendentalist and non dualists as a form of samadhi. It is a self

deception of the ego. The first time it happened to me, I was

surprised if not a little fearful. However I soon realised that it was

just bs, and one still had to overcome it to a dynamic field then to a

non dyanamic field.

 

Many of the masters such as Jesus, Buddha, Ramana etc whilst being

Jivanmuktis perform a certain amount of purification at the mind

level, for all humanity. Taking on the sins of the world so to speak.

However new patterns of thinking are not enough there has to be

personal sadhana and effort. Even if is living cleanly and practicing

'Who am I'. One has to have a certain amount of purification to

practise this effectively IMO. Otherwise it runs around in the lower

mnd incarnation after incarnation, net club after net club.

 

There is a lot of balancing and purification needed to be worked on in

the human body. Everything from balancing the male and the female

energies to purifying the vibrations through spiritual practice and

diet etc.

 

Kind of like all our energies and sheaths or bodies have to be in

attunment in meditation, to successfully drop the samskaric anchors

and end delusion, achieve moksha.

 

Om Namah Sivaya......Tony.

[Guest guest]

> "I realise that when vegetarianism is mentioned all the guilt,

anger

> and the feeling of being offended arise. I do not wish to castigate

> the flesh eaters per se. All my posts on this subject have all been

> about purification.

>

> There's none so deaf as those who have selected hearing, ego

desires

> and addictions."

 

In my case if was evidentally in the genes and conditioning, that I

was unable to go beyond. Sure, I feel some quilt about having to

survive while taking the life of other sentient beings, but that is

what the universe gave me and I am working to go beyond it.

 

p.s I eat lots of tofu but it just wasn't enough to sustain my body.

 

 

OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

Alton

[Guest guest]

Dear Tony and All --

Namaste to you, too!

I salute that which, expressing as "Tony",

yet has no name, no location, and is expressing

as "Dan" ...

Love is all -- and I know That is You ... and I know

you offer Love ...

I realize that when posts on vegetarianism are offered,

all the pride, vanity, superiority, and the feeling of

being special tend to arise. Noticing this can

be an excellent teacher. And, learning can

be had, as you have noticed, by being aware of

guilt, anger, and feeling offended -- these can

be a teacher for meat-eaters with red jowls,

carrot-eaters with orange teeth,

or beet-eaters with red ...

I do not wish to castigate self-congratulatory

posters per se. All my posts about this subject have

been

about original purity.

There are none so deaf as those who have an ax to grind,

see others ego's more clearly than their own, are addicted to

being right.

LOL ...

Indeed, being able to hear and balance is the question!

Love and Good Humor to All,

Dan

Namaste All,

I realise that when vegetarianism is mentioned all the guilt, anger

and the feeling of being offended arise. I do not wish to castigate

the flesh eaters per se. All my posts on this subject have all been

about purification.

There's none so deaf as those who have selected hearing, ego desires

and addictions.

There is a natural impulse to the rise of consciousness, even in the

animals, and human animals. However to attune the varies levels of

body and mind requires purification of samskaras and other vibrations.

Otherwise true above the lower mind awareness doesn't arise.

All non dual thought will do will possible arive at a place of vacant

placidity or quiet. This laya is mistaken by many so called

transendentalist and non dualists as a form of samadhi. It is a self

deception of the ego. The first time it happened to me, I was

surprised if not a little fearful. However I soon realised that it was

just bs, and one still had to overcome it to a dynamic field then to a

non dyanamic field.

Many of the masters such as Jesus, Buddha, Ramana etc whilst being

Jivanmuktis perform a certain amount of purification at the mind

level, for all humanity. Taking on the sins of the world so to speak.

However new patterns of thinking are not enough there has to be

personal sadhana and effort. Even if is living cleanly and practicing

'Who am I'. One has to have a certain amount of purification to

practise this effectively IMO. Otherwise it runs around in the lower

mnd incarnation after incarnation, net club after net club.

There is a lot of balancing and purification needed to be worked on in

the human body. Everything from balancing the male and the female

energies to purifying the vibrations through spiritual practice and

diet etc.

Kind of like all our energies and sheaths or bodies have to be in

attunment in meditation, to successfully drop the samskaric anchors

and end delusion, achieve moksha.

Om Namah Sivaya......Tony.

 

Sponsor

/join

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and

subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the

nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always

Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to

be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome

all to a.

Your use of is subject to the

Terms of

Service.

[Guest guest]

, Daniel Berkow <berkowd@u...> wrote:

> Dear Tony and All --

>

> Namaste to you, too!

>

> I salute that which, expressing as "Tony",

> yet has no name, no location, and is expressing

> as "Dan" ...

>

> Love is all -- and I know That is You ... and I know

> you offer Love ...

>

> I realize that when posts on vegetarianism are offered,

> all the pride, vanity, superiority, and the feeling of

> being special tend to arise. Noticing this can

> be an excellent teacher. And, learning can

> be had, as you have noticed, by being aware of

> guilt, anger, and feeling offended -- these can

> be a teacher for meat-eaters with red jowls,

> carrot-eaters with orange teeth,

> or beet-eaters with red ...

>

> I do not wish to castigate self-congratulatory

> posters per se. All my posts about this subject have been

> about original purity.

>

> There are none so deaf as those who have an ax to grind,

> see others ego's more clearly than their own, are addicted to

> being right.

>

> LOL ...

>

> Indeed, being able to hear and balance is the question!

>

> Love and Good Humor to All,

> Dan

Namaste Dan,

 

I have no axe to grind at all. I'm probably worse on some things than

most. However they don't involve himsa to an animal. However I don't

condemn people who eat meat. Like other animals that's where they are

at. However it is difficult to be non dual and all one and yet cause

another one to have pain and suffering to provide food for so called

spiritual people. You'll have to see Glo about the sheath cleaner!!or

even the pig poets if they are still here.

 

I'm not addicted to being right lots of times I'm wrong. However on

this subject I follow the teachings of the great masters and my own

feelings. I make no excuses or expect any just face the Truth.

 

My punt again is that without attumment of the sheaths and

purification, samskaras will prevent moksha.

 

Om Namah Sivaya....Tony.

[Guest guest]

, "COMO KASHA" <lostnfoundation> wrote:

>

> > "I realise that when vegetarianism is mentioned all the guilt,

> anger

> > and the feeling of being offended arise. I do not wish to

castigate

> > the flesh eaters per se. All my posts on this subject have all

been

> > about purification.

> >

> > There's none so deaf as those who have selected hearing, ego

> desires

> > and addictions."

>

> In my case if was evidentally in the genes and conditioning, that I

> was unable to go beyond. Sure, I feel some quilt about having to

> survive while taking the life of other sentient beings, but that is

> what the universe gave me and I am working to go beyond it.

>

> p.s I eat lots of tofu but it just wasn't enough to sustain my body.

>

>

> OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

>

> Alton

 

Namaste Alton,

 

Eat some free range eggs and dairy produce? plus good old Hawiian

spirulina, and other proteins like avocados. You can do it if you

really want to.

 

Success requires no explanation, Failure has no alibis...ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Tony,

>I realise that when vegetarianism is mentioned all the guilt, anger

>and the feeling of being offended arise.

 

No, actually what arises is intense boredom. )) How many times can you

say the same things, I wonder? <yawwwwwwwwn>

 

If you keep it up, I'll have to filter your messages into the trash...

just so I can read the list and stay awake. ))))))))

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Tony:

>My punt again is that without attumment of the sheaths and

>purification, samskaras will prevent moksha.

 

Again??? <yawwwwwwwn>

 

BTW, was that "punt" a Freudian slip? ))

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Namaste Dan,

I have no axe to grind at all. I'm probably worse on some things than

most. However they don't involve himsa to an animal. However I don't

condemn people who eat meat. Like other animals that's where they are

at. However it is difficult to be non dual and all one and yet cause

another one to have pain and suffering to provide food for so called

spiritual people. You'll have to see Glo about the sheath cleaner!!or

even the pig poets if they are still here.

I'm not addicted to being right lots of times I'm wrong. However on

this subject I follow the teachings of the great masters and my own

feelings. I make no excuses or expect any just face the Truth.

My punt again is that without attumment of the sheaths and

purification, samskaras will prevent moksha.

Om Namah Sivaya....Tony.

Dear Tony --

It is not difficult to be nondual.

It is impossible to be nondual.

Only for One not-being anything is

there no question whatsoever about

being nondual, dual, or triual.

Beliefs are a way to be something.

"I am a believer in this" ...

"You are a believer in that" ...

Believing in moksha, cleansing of sheaths,

trying to eliminate samskaras,

not eating animals, being a follower

of certain "masters" who seem to

be in agreement with one's own beliefs ...

That is a way to be something, to be a believer.

Believing that in actuality there

are no such things as moksha or

being bound, that trying to clean sheathes

becomes its own obstruction,

that following any "master" fragments

awareness, or that trying to eliminate

samskaras is itself a samskara --

is also just another way

to be something, to be a believer.

As being in a nondual way is impossible,

I recommend forgetting the techniques

and nontechniques, the practical approaches,

the possible ways to do things,

the teachings and nonteachings, and ...

just *be the impossible* !

Impossible Love,

Dan

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan, all refreshingly true but, bear with me...

Dan - It is not difficult to be nondual.

It is impossible to be nondual.

Joyce -An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - Only for One not-being anything is

there no question whatsoever about

being nondual, dual, or triual.

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - Beliefs are a way to be something.

Joyce - "An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - "I am a believer in this" ...

"You are a believer in that" ...

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - Believing in moksha, cleansing of sheaths,

trying to eliminate samskaras,

not eating animals, being a follower

of certain "masters" who seem to

be in agreement with one's own beliefs ...

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - That is a way to be something, to be a believer.

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - Believing that in actuality there

are no such things as moksha or

being bound, that trying to clean sheathes

becomes its own obstruction,

that following any "master" fragments

awareness, or that trying to eliminate

samskaras is itself a samskara --

is also just another way

to be something, to be a believer.

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - As being in a nondual way is impossible,

I recommend forgetting the techniques

and nontechniques, the practical approaches,

the possible ways to do things,

the teachings and nonteachings, and ...

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - just *be the impossible* !

Joyce - Possibly this is what is occuring all the time...

Joyce and Dan in agreement - "Impossible love".

Joyce........possibly.

[Guest guest]

dansan....well said!....personally....i am a believer in nothing but

the beloved...."i come from nothing. i am nothing. i return to

nothing." (St Ignatius)....believers are the most dangerous people in

the world....they are always ready and willing to kill another not for

food, but for their beliefs....perhaps that is why so many new

believers are encouraged to be veggie's.....to get in touch with

their murderous convictions....been an off and on veggie all my

life....as a professional chef to me it is a matter of

conscience....i believe that industrial agri-business is killing the

planet (mad-cow disease, holes in the ozone layer, the break-down in

the bio-diversity as we intensely harvests certain crops,

etc.)....but this belief is not one i am ready to kill for not to

force upon another....it is merely an observeable fact that requires

an intelligent response from a higher consciousness that is doing the

observing....oh, that sneaky mind of mine is playing its wonderful

games again....conceptualizing, conceptualizing,

conceptualizing.....returning me once again to the abode of the

beloved, sacred heart of nothing.....^^~~~~~

 

further up and further in,

 

white wolfe

Namaste Dan,I have no axe to grind at all. I'm probably worse on some

things than most. However they don't involve himsa to an animal.

However I don't condemn people who eat meat. Like other animals

that's where they are at. However it is difficult to be non dual and

all one and yet cause another one to have pain and suffering to

provide food for so called spiritual people. You'll have to see Glo

about the sheath cleaner!!or even the pig poets if they are still

here.I'm not addicted to being right lots of times I'm wrong. However

on this subject I follow the teachings of the great masters and my own

feelings. I make no excuses or expect any just face the Truth.My punt

again is that without attumment of the sheaths and purification,

samskaras will prevent moksha.Om Namah Sivaya....Tony.Dear Tony --It

is not difficult to be nondual.It is impossible to be nondual.Only

for One not-being anything is there no question whatsoever about

being nondual, dual, or triual.Beliefs are a way to be something."I

am a believer in this" ..."You are a believer in that" ...Believing

in moksha, cleansing of sheaths, trying to eliminate samskaras, not

eating animals, being a follower of certain "masters" who seem to be

in agreement with one's own beliefs ...That is a way to be something,

to be a believer.Believing that in actuality there are no such

things as moksha or being bound, that trying to clean sheathes

becomes its own obstruction, that following any "master" fragments

awareness, or that trying to eliminate samskaras is itself a

samskara -- is also just another way to be something, to be a

believer.As being in a nondual way is impossible, I recommend

forgetting the techniques and nontechniques, the practical

approaches, the possible ways to do things, the teachings and

nonteachings, and ... just *be the impossible* !Impossible Love,Dan

[Guest guest]

I hate to quibble, but how is all this not "beliefs"...Joyce

I don't believe in anything BUT....

dansan....well said!....personally....i am a believer in nothing but

the beloved...."i come from nothing. i am nothing. i return to

nothing." (St Ignatius)....believers are the most dangerous people in

the world....they are always ready and willing to kill another not for

food, but for their beliefs....perhaps that is why so many new

believers are encouraged to be veggie's.....to get in touch with

their murderous convictions....been an off and on veggie all my

life....as a professional chef to me it is a matter of

conscience....i believe that industrial agri-business is killing the

planet (mad-cow disease, holes in the ozone layer, the break-down in

the bio-diversity as we intensely harvests certain crops,

etc.)....but this belief is not one i am ready to kill for not to

force upon another....it is merely an observeable fact that requires

an intelligent response from a higher consciousness that is doing the

observing....oh, that sneaky mind of mine is playing its wonderful

games again....conceptualizing, conceptualizing,

conceptualizing.....returning me once again to the abode of the

beloved, sacred heart of nothing.....^^~~~~~

 

further up and further in,

 

white wolfe

[Guest guest]

Hi Joyce!

Hi Dan, all refreshingly true but,

bear with me...

Certainly! Reminds me of the saying,

"My yoke is light and my burden is easy"! ;-)

Dan - It is not difficult to be

nondual.

It is impossible to be

nondual.

Joyce -An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - Only for One not-being anything is

there no question whatsoever

about

being nondual, dual, or

triual.

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - Beliefs are a way to be something.

Joyce - "An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - "I am a believer in this" ...

"You are a believer in

that" ...

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - Believing in moksha, cleansing of sheaths,

trying to

eliminate samskaras,

not eating

animals, being a follower

of certain

"masters" who seem to

be in agreement

with one's own beliefs ...

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - That is a way to be something, to be a believer.

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - Believing that in actuality there

are no such things as moksha or

being bound, that trying to clean

sheathes

becomes its own obstruction,

that following any

"master" fragments

awareness, or that trying to

eliminate

samskaras is itself a samskara

--

is also just another way

to be something, to be a

believer.

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - As being in a nondual way is impossible,

I recommend forgetting the

techniques

and nontechniques, the practical

approaches,

the possible ways to do things,

the teachings and nonteachings, and

....

Joyce - An expression of "impossible love".

Dan - just *be the impossible* !

Joyce - Possibly this is what is occuring all the time...

Joyce and Dan in agreement - "Impossible

love".

Joyce........possibly.

Impossible!

And yet ... it is!

;-)

Be always who you already are.

Try not to be.

Now be who you are ;-)

Now.

Try to be something else.

Only now.

Impossible, because

beyond any possibilities

and *beyond even any actualities* ...

;-)

Love,

Dan

[Guest guest]

At 07:21 AM 6/5/01 -0700, you wrote:

dansan....well

said!....personally....i am a believer in nothing but the

beloved...."i come from nothing. i am nothing. i return to

nothing." (St Ignatius)....believers are the most dangerous people

in the world....they are always ready and willing to kill another not for

food, but for their beliefs....perhaps that is why so many new believers

are encouraged to be veggie's.....to get in touch with their murderous

convictions....been an off and on veggie all my life....as a professional

chef to me it is a matter of conscience....i believe that industrial

agri-business is killing the planet (mad-cow disease, holes in the ozone

layer, the break-down in the bio-diversity as we intensely harvests

certain crops, etc.)....but this belief is not one i am ready to kill for

not to force upon another....it is merely an observeable fact that

requires an intelligent response from a higher consciousness that is

doing the observing....oh, that sneaky mind of mine is playing its

wonderful games again....conceptualizing, conceptualizing,

conceptualizing.....returning me once again to the abode of the beloved,

sacred heart of nothing.....^^~~~~~

 

further up and further in,

 

white

wolfe

Hi ^^~~~~~ !

Watch that sneaky observer, trying to

be separate from what is observed,

making up concepts about how to

fix the observed ... ;-)

How funny when it turns out plain as

day that the observer is the observed,

the observed is the observer --

even trying to fix it, the observer

can't help being the observed, and

vice versa!

It's really something, the way this

nothing invents forms for itself,

and the way forms invent nothingness

to dissolve into!

Peace,

Dan