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On 6/6/01 at 8:42 PM COMO KASHA wrote:

 

[...]

ºNow. I follow the 10 10 80 diet and only eat limited amount of flesh

ºfood.

ºThe 5 masters that initiated me, and that I no longer follow, said

ºthat I should just die rather than break my vows. No more depression.

ºIf you are depressed and vegetarian, maybe its your diet.

ºLOL.

º

ºLove,

ºAlton

 

I wonder what kind of "masters" that must have been <s>

And also I wonder about the psychological make-up of those, taking vows...

The class of belief & expectation maybe?

The only vow I took was never to vow...

It served rather well throughout the years...

 

Joy and Light,

Jan

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You could say it was a mistake taking the vows, but I wanted what

they had to offer at the time. Basically I am a sacrilegious type and

only believe that I will demolish the constant chattering in my mind

by purely technical pursuits. Soon the scientists will have a machine

where we will see all our thoughts on a monitor and we will progress

many times faster than the Master's ancient techniques.

 

U.G wont let the scientists scan his brain, because they will find a

way with drugs to duplicate what happened to him, but It wont be real.

 

If Ramana said, I will give you what I have now, I would refuse and

say, why dont you give to all who ask? I dont want any more gifts, I

want to attain by hard work and sweat. I am not a gifted meditator

but transformation is assured because I was given the upmost

earnestness. Pluto is after my moon and the karmic astrololgers say

that is where I am going. No, more "I, me, mine.

 

 

, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote:

> On 6/6/01 at 8:42 PM COMO KASHA wrote:

>

> [...]

> ºNow. I follow the 10 10 80 diet and only eat limited amount of

flesh

> ºfood.

> ºThe 5 masters that initiated me, and that I no longer follow, said

> ºthat I should just die rather than break my vows. No more

depression.

> ºIf you are depressed and vegetarian, maybe its your diet.

> ºLOL.

> º

> ºLove,

> ºAlton

>

> I wonder what kind of "masters" that must have been <s>

> And also I wonder about the psychological make-up of those, taking

vows...

> The class of belief & expectation maybe?

> The only vow I took was never to vow...

> It served rather well throughout the years...

>

> Joy and Light,

> Jan

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If I remember correctly, Ramana said that, what ever practice one is

doing is right for them. Correct me if I am wrong?

 

 

 

, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote:

>

> On 6/6/01 at 9:44 PM COMO KASHA wrote:

>

> ºYou could say it was a mistake taking the vows, but I wanted what

> ºthey had to offer at the time. Basically I am a sacrilegious type

and

> ºonly believe that I will demolish the constant chattering in my

mind

> ºby purely technical pursuits. Soon the scientists will have a

machine

> ºwhere we will see all our thoughts on a monitor and we will

progress

> ºmany times faster than the Master's ancient techniques.

>

> That belief, that the stopping of mind-chatter by itself results in

a kind of

> nirvana, is the root cause of all practices - and most of them are

are

> a kind of mental treadmill - boooooooring.

> Discover the causes of the mind-chatter instead of 'working' on it -

> that would be science...

> º

> ºU.G wont let the scientists scan his brain, because they will find

a

> ºway with drugs to duplicate what happened to him, but It wont be

real.

>

> Well, if that's so, I don't have to read UG <laugh>

> What scientists would find in my brain would be both

> bizarre and worthless to them :)

> º

> ºIf Ramana said, I will give you what I have now, I would refuse

and

> ºsay, why dont you give to all who ask? I dont want any more gifts,

I

> ºwant to attain by hard work and sweat. I am not a gifted meditator

> ºbut transformation is assured because I was given the upmost

> ºearnestness. Pluto is after my moon and the karmic astrololgers

say

> ºthat is where I am going. No, more "I, me, mine.

>

> Ramana won't say anything anymore :)

> And I won't forget that C.G. Jung visited India to finish his

deceased friend's book

> on Ramana, but didn't visit him, stating that wasn't necessary as

Ramana's statements

> were 100% predictable. Instead, he met a householder,

practicing "who am I"

> and that was the proof of the pudding regarding the method of self-

enquiry.

>

> There are proficient astrologers on the list - perhaps they could

assist you a bit.

> Regarding my "enlightenment", the horoscopic outcome probably would

be "never" <laugh>

>

> Joy and Light,

> Jan

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On 6/6/01 at 10:27 PM COMO KASHA wrote:

 

ºIf I remember correctly, Ramana said that, what ever practice one is

ºdoing is right for them. Correct me if I am wrong?

 

I don't know if Ramana said that, but in my case, the statement

could easily be interpreted as "dead-wrong"...

As an "animal of pleasure" I could be active mentally for hours in

order to find a pleasant way to circumvent something "unpleasant"

that would have taken just 5 minutes.. If that attitude would have

translated into 'seekership', seeking for a pleasant method would still be

keeping me busy :)

 

BTW, as a teenager and atheist, I was far worse than Tony...

Showing the inconsistency that comes with all kinds of

belief...

/

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What ever works for you is right. In my case my happiness level

increases dramatically as I continue my meditation practice and "let

come what comes, and let go what goes"

 

Nisaragadatta: "All you can do is give up your attachments, the rest

will be done for you". " Believe me there can not be too much

destuction".

 

 

 

, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote:

>

> On 6/6/01 at 10:27 PM COMO KASHA wrote:

>

> ºIf I remember correctly, Ramana said that, what ever practice one

is

> ºdoing is right for them. Correct me if I am wrong?

>

> I don't know if Ramana said that, but in my case, the statement

> could easily be interpreted as "dead-wrong"...

> As an "animal of pleasure" I could be active mentally for hours in

> order to find a pleasant way to circumvent something "unpleasant"

> that would have taken just 5 minutes.. If that attitude would have

> translated into 'seekership', seeking for a pleasant method would

still be

> keeping me busy :)

>

> BTW, as a teenager and atheist, I was far worse than Tony...

> Showing the inconsistency that comes with all kinds of

> belief...

> /

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On 6/6/01 at 10:58 PM COMO KASHA wrote:

 

ºWhat ever works for you is right. In my case my happiness level

ºincreases dramatically as I continue my meditation practice and "let

ºcome what comes, and let go what goes"

º

ºNisaragadatta: "All you can do is give up your attachments, the rest

ºwill be done for you". " Believe me there can not be too much

ºdestuction".

 

And how does one know there isn't attachment to a practice?

Another one trying to find justification for "what seems to work"

with the aid of quotes? OK, how about this quote:

 

"A man will renounce any pleasures you like

but he will not give up his suffering."

 

**** Gurdjieff

 

And who, with the aid of proper quotes, will 'prove' that the universe is a cube

filled with popsicles?

At least that would be funny...

 

 

b

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You win, I have run out of answers.

Love you Love me,

Alton

 

, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote:

>

> On 6/6/01 at 10:58 PM COMO KASHA wrote:

>

> ºWhat ever works for you is right. In my case my happiness level

> ºincreases dramatically as I continue my meditation practice

and "let

> ºcome what comes, and let go what goes"

> º

> ºNisaragadatta: "All you can do is give up your attachments, the

rest

> ºwill be done for you". " Believe me there can not be too much

> ºdestuction".

>

> And how does one know there isn't attachment to a practice?

> Another one trying to find justification for "what seems to work"

> with the aid of quotes? OK, how about this quote:

>

> "A man will renounce any pleasures you like

> but he will not give up his suffering."

>

> **** Gurdjieff

>

> And who, with the aid of proper quotes, will 'prove' that the

universe is a cube filled with popsicles?

> At least that would be funny...

>

>

> b

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On 6/6/01 at 11:15 PM COMO KASHA wrote:

 

ºYou win, I have run out of answers.

ºLove you Love me,

ºAlton

 

There is no winning or losing - facing the mess, wrought by upbringing and

education

is hard. When that is "over", all practices end... Perhaps this gives some

insight that

'running away, hiding, practicing' cannot deny:

 

Your most intimate thoughts I know

Yes all of them I know so well

Yet it is you thinking to run life's show

Turning your precious life into a hell

 

Love,

Jan

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Hi Alton,

>You could say it was a mistake taking the vows, but I wanted what

>they had to offer at the time. Basically I am a sacrilegious type and

>only believe that I will demolish the constant chattering in my mind

>by purely technical pursuits.

 

If you believe you are limited, then you are limited.

>U.G wont let the scientists scan his brain, because they will find a

>way with drugs to duplicate what happened to him, but It wont be real.

>

>If Ramana said, I will give you what I have now, I would refuse and

>say, why dont you give to all who ask?

 

What makes you think he didn't?

>I dont want any more gifts, I

>want to attain by hard work and sweat.

 

Well, you will surely get what you want. Work hard... there will be no

gifts for you, if you refuse them.

> I am not a gifted meditator

>but transformation is assured because I was given the upmost

>earnestness. Pluto is after my moon

 

Well, let's hope he doesn't catch it! :)))

 

(Sorry about that.)

 

Love,

Dharma

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>

> >You could say it was a mistake taking the vows, but I wanted what

> >they had to offer at the time. Basically I am a sacrilegious type

and

> >only believe that I will demolish the constant chattering in my

mind

> >by purely technical pursuits.

>

> If you believe you are limited, then you are limited.

 

I believe I am both limited and unlimited.

> >If Ramana said, I will give you what I have now, I would refuse and

> >say, why dont you give to all who ask?

>

> What makes you think he didn't?

 

I fantasized about being with Ramana in a previous life, so maybe I

am crazed about this trip because of HIM.

 

> Well, you will surely get what you want. Work hard... there will

be no

> gifts for you, if you refuse them.

 

Someone make me an offer I can't refuse?

>

> > I am not a gifted meditator

> >but transformation is assured because I was given the upmost

> >earnestness. Pluto is after my moon

>

> Well, let's hope he doesn't catch it! :)))

>

> (Sorry about that.)

 

Dont' apologize for anything you say to me. The last board I

participated in someone threatened to kill me. It did not scare me,

but I dont want my family harassed. Luckily, no one told him my real

name as he might have called us here in Hawaii while my family was

sleeping. It's only 5:12 here now.

 

Love us Love you,

Alton

>

> Love,

> Dharma

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Hi Alton,

>snip<

>> >only believe that I will demolish the constant chattering in my

>mind

>> >by purely technical pursuits.

>>

>> If you believe you are limited, then you are limited.

>

>I believe I am both limited and unlimited.

 

Sounds like a koan... try meditating on it. :)

 

What I meant was, such beliefs are limiting. They are blocks to

progress... and actual blocks to the movement of energy. So when you find

that you believe you can't do something, you've found a block! And you can

get to work getting rid of it. You'll then be freer... free to do

whatever it was.

>> >If Ramana said, I will give you what I have now, I would refuse and

>> >say, why dont you give to all who ask?

>>

>> What makes you think he didn't?

>

>I fantasized about being with Ramana in a previous life, so maybe I

>am crazed about this trip because of HIM.

 

Well, you could think through your beliefs about Ramana... and get rid of

them. Give them to God... or Goddess. Ask whoever you pray to to take

them from you. :)

 

Then you could start fresh and read what Ramana said... without having

beliefs about him that would get in your way.

>> Well, you will surely get what you want. Work hard... there will

>be no

>> gifts for you, if you refuse them.

>

>Someone make me an offer I can't refuse?

 

Who could beat your imagined gift from Ramana? :))

 

It's all free, honey. You just have to open your arms and accept. Seek

and you will find. Knock, and it will be opened.

>> > I am not a gifted meditator

>> >but transformation is assured because I was given the upmost

>> >earnestness. Pluto is after my moon

>>

>> Well, let's hope he doesn't catch it! :)))

>>

>> (Sorry about that.)

>

>Dont' apologize for anything you say to me.

 

Oh honey, I just said that because it was a bad joke. :)) "Sorry about

that" is the kind of thing you say after a really bad joke. :))

>The last board I

>participated in someone threatened to kill me. It did not scare me,

>but I dont want my family harassed. Luckily, no one told him my real

>name as he might have called us here in Hawaii while my family was

>sleeping. It's only 5:12 here now.

 

Rough people! I don't think anything like that will happen here. :)

 

Love,

Dharma

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