Dharma/Joyce universal Ramble

[Guest guest]

Dharma: Well, I've been given a new name just once... and it's really to

remind me of who I'm not. ) Back in '98 I got involved with a young

guru. The first time I ever took a human teacher, but he had good

Kundalini techniques, and I wanted to learn them. He was also the kind of

teacher I would warn anyone away from, and before I got away from him, I

had a breakdown.

Joyce: Yes, friend suffering takes the place of unreal friend.

Disappointment with teachers is quite good. I've recently met a Sufi

teacher who drop obvious hints that he thought he'd be a fine

'teacher' for me. laugh. I got a Sikh name from Yogi Bhajan. Went

to his tantric class. Most enlightening. Im happy, healthy and Holy.

laugh.

"DHARMA" is a wonderful name. Just don't let it be *your* name. Laugh!

Joyce: until ultimately you have nothing at all except peace having completely

>given away "I", ultimate dana.

Dharma: I didn't quite make the transition there. You give away the spiritual

force from your practice... and you just have more in return... and how

does this turn into "nothing at all except peace having completely given

away "I"? I mean, what happened to all that energy that kept growing?

Joyce: Hah! The 'giving away' is skillful means for giving the way the

self-habit or clinging, giving away is the opposite force to clinging.

The continual thought of cultivating everything one does on the behalf

of other wears down the illusional notion of 'other'. The more energy

you 'have' the more energy is wearing down the illusion that there is

any 'I' in anything. Take away the delusional habit of 'I' and 'mine'

what do you have left? What the Buddha would not speak about ( I think

he was wise). So, eventually, mind actually comes to the recognition

that actually it and everything IS completely empty, (of 'I' and

'mine') at which point practice is only remaining in awareness, in

emptiness and so on and this is 'continually freeing all sentient

beings."

Dharma: at seems like such a complete inner turn-around... an inner and subtle

but total metanoia, a remaking of the mind. Any tips on how to talk about

it to people who don't already feel the altruism?

Joyce: I certainly didn't feel altruistic mind when I began. My

Tibetan teacher told us we had to kind of crank up compassion and

kindness. So, of course, the first 'being' one has to direct

kindness towards is oneself and then the kindess spreads out to all

bengs close by and then finally our throuhg the unlimited universe

and in all realms. Do you know the Metta practice? You must have

come across Tonglen? Since of course there is no other sentient

beings one is being kind to, still one as if's it until this is

really true. So the practice itself hooks up out of self-grasping

mind-flow into transcendent mind flow. The practice and true

motivation transforms mind as you go along. Soon enough to begin to

feel it and mean it. I think if you have meditation class you might

like any of the Buddhist practices with the Brahma Viharas. THis

helps people cheer up conventioanl reality somewhat. But probably you

already have them. Overcomes any deep seated negative conditioning.

All things positive or negative are conditioned by something else.

Dharma ; You may be right... I'll think about it. I did find some amazing stuff

right out in plain view,

Joyce: Yes, funny, like looking for mushrooms, can't see them any

where and then finally all ofa sudden see one or two and then a field

of them and then mushrooms as far as the eye can see and then more and

more........ a la la!

But when you write, there is no 'you' so you tune into the flow and

just allow no writer writing. Allow wisdom mind. Check motivation

before you do anything and then go for it. Wonderful emptiness

practice.

Dharma: Really! Does it take them some time too to get back to "normal" life?

Joyce; Yes. Don't want to leave happy land beyond heavy body, come

back, feel sad, feel moved to make life more meaning ful and less

selfish, and so on.

Dharma: But it sounds

like you lead a fairly "normal" life?

Joyce: Not really. I live a very reclusive life. Can get to the

shops. Occasionally have a yen to go to Asia and wander. Currently

hubby wants me to go to Paris but Ive thought up an excuse. I do the

minimum, put on pleasant face, feel fine, practice with emptiness,

don't mention this to anyone -laugh. Happiest sitting doing nothing.

No longer paint etc.

Your blindness? Are you physically blind?

Joyce: Heavens no, much worse than that...laugh.

Dharma: My grandsons are coming to visit soon. Tell me, what's the "no-head game"??

Joyce: It's from Douglas Harding of 'On having No Head' fame who

taught me to be 'headless' years ago by taking off my glasses and

putting them back on my face telling me to let my eye be single and

full of light. I didn't get it. I used to feel ashamed that I was

'empty', afraid of eye contact because people would see that there

was nothing here but empty space. They didnt seem to feel this

themselves. I still do Mall practice where some people meet eye

contact and its flash emptiness meets emtiness and other times either

of us is sunk in self. Tells me who is feeling badly today so I send

a bit of metta (kindness) Later in Kenya I suddenly 'got it', what

Harding meant, while walking through the market. I realized that I

wasn't the only one 'empty'.

Put Douglas Harding in the Search and find fun stuff.

I think some fellow is showing up on this list to help us to Awaken? Good show, aye?LOL!

Love

Joyce

[Guest guest]

Hi Joyce,

>"DHARMA" is a wonderful name. Just don't let it be *your* name. Laugh!

 

When I first spoke with my spiritual guru, I asked for a name to call

him... any name, just so I wouldn't have to say "Hey you." ) A name is

a useful thing... and NOT being Ann was very helpful to me.

 

I haven't tried to change it legally yet... it's going to be a terrific

hassle. I asked my bank to let me also use the name Dharma Fisher on my

accounts. Well, think they would take my word for what name to use? No,

they want me to bring proof that I am known by that name. What a hassle...

one of these days I'll take them something from the supermarket. The store

doesn't care what name they have for me, as long as I buy there. ))

>Joyce: until ultimately you have nothing at all except peace having completely

>>given away "I", ultimate dana.

>

>Dharma: I didn't quite make the transition there. You give away the spiritual

>force from your practice... and you just have more in return... and how

>does this turn into "nothing at all except peace having completely given

>away "I"? I mean, what happened to all that energy that kept growing?

>

>Joyce: Hah! The 'giving away' is skillful means for giving the way the

>self-habit or clinging, giving away is the opposite force to clinging. The

>continual thought of cultivating everything one does on the behalf of

>other wears down the illusional notion of 'other'. The more energy you

>'have' the more energy is wearing down the illusion that there is any 'I'

>in anything. Take away the delusional habit of 'I' and 'mine' what do you

>have left? What the Buddha would not speak about ( I think he was wise).

>So, eventually, mind actually comes to the recognition that actually it

>and everything IS completely empty, (of 'I' and 'mine') at which point

>practice is only remaining in awareness, in emptiness and so on and this

>is 'continually freeing all sentient beings."

 

Thank you, I'll have to give that some thought.

 

Actually, at the moment I'm having a problem with extremely strong

Kundalini and "energy overload," and I was hoping you had a solution...

thought maybe you meant it would all turn smooth and easy. The image

arises of the story "Little Black Sambo" - anyone remember? At the end

he's up a tree and the tigers are running round and round the tree, faster

and faster, until finally they just turn into a pool of melted butter.

Maybe it will all become some sort of golden ghee. ))

>Dharma: at seems like such a complete inner turn-around... an inner and subtle

>but total metanoia, a remaking of the mind. Any tips on how to talk about

>it to people who don't already feel the altruism?

>

>Joyce: I certainly didn't feel altruistic mind when I began. My Tibetan

>teacher told us we had to kind of crank up compassion and kindness. So,

>of course, the first 'being' one has to direct kindness towards is oneself

 

Did you find that easy? Some people wouldn't, I think.

>and then the kindess spreads out to all bengs close by and then finally

>our throuhg the unlimited universe and in all realms. Do you know the

>Metta practice?

 

Nope.

> You must have come across Tonglen?

 

Nope. I haven't had incarnate teachers. When Rinpoche came, it wasn't

about practices... he spoke and answered questions. The only practice I

recall there was walking meditation. And I learned the three obeisances

when he came into the room. Actually, it was pretty funny... everyone was

trying to get down to the floor and jump up again and go down again and so

on as fast as they could to get it done, and there was this big guy with a

huge fanny right in front of me. I kept trying to go as fast as I could and

not smack my head into his rear end... )))

> Since of course there is no other sentient beings one is being kind to,

still one as if's it until this is really true.

 

Nice verb... to "as if" it...

> So the practice itself hooks up out of self-grasping mind-flow into

>transcendent mind flow. The practice and true motivation transforms mind

>as you go along. Soon enough to begin to feel it and mean it. I think if

>you have meditation class you might like any of the Buddhist practices

>with the Brahma Viharas. THis helps people cheer up conventioanl reality

>somewhat. But probably you already have them. Overcomes any deep seated

>negative conditioning. All things positive or negative are conditioned by

>something else.

 

Nope, I don't have them. Send away, I'd like to see them.

 

This is not the way I teach with an in-person class. But in teaching over

the net, any specific practices might be useful for a specific person.

>Dharma ; You may be right... I'll think about it. I did find some

>amazing stuff

>right out in plain view,

>

>Joyce: Yes, funny, like looking for mushrooms, can't see them any where

>and then finally all ofa sudden see one or two and then a field of them

>and then mushrooms as far as the eye can see and then more and

>more........ a la la!

>

>But when you write, there is no 'you' so you tune into the flow and just

>allow no writer writing. Allow wisdom mind. Check motivation before you

>do anything and then go for it. Wonderful emptiness practice.

 

It's more or less written already... in some pieces.

 

But you're right. When I was in school studying literature and literary

criticism etc., I once took a teacher a poem. He could hardly believe I

wrote it... he said critics usually can't write. )) The only way I can

write is to put that kind of knowledge on a back shelf... no judgment, no

critical mind while I'm writing. Just write. Then sometime later I can go

back and see what it needs.

>Dharma: But it sounds

>like you lead a fairly "normal" life?

>

>Joyce: Not really. I live a very reclusive life. Can get to the shops.

>Occasionally have a yen to go to Asia and wander. Currently hubby wants

>me to go to Paris but Ive thought up an excuse.

 

Sounds like a fun thing to do together... maybe next time you could go to

Asia and wander together.

> I do the minimum, put on pleasant face, feel fine, practice with

>emptiness, don't mention this to anyone -laugh. Happiest sitting doing

>nothing. No longer paint etc.

 

I'm happy here alone too. I do need to start making some money, but I'm

hoping to do it from home over the net.

>I think some fellow is showing up on this list to help us to Awaken? Good

>show, aye?LOL!

 

Another one! Let's hope it's something besides the veggie kick! )))

 

Love,

Dharma