Nondualism

[Guest guest]

>> I must admit though, that I find the non-dual system of jargon,

without much sadhana to be absolutely fascinating. I have never seen

such regimentation and inflexibility of thinking <<

Hello Tony. It is nice to meet you. I have been on a six weeks journey

through the southwest (looking for a new place to plant myself) and so

have been absent from the group. I see there has been a quite lively

conversation going on. I am not sure what you mean by jargon, which

sounds somewhat perjorative to me. In order to share experience and

insight (or noninsight or whatever), words are necessary, at least

for most of us, and every "system" has it's own language. As an

artist I know very well how things that sound perfectly reasonable to

me sound like "jargon" to someone else. I also understand the creative

power of words, whether it comes to describing art (and

making/breaking artists' careers) or whether it comes to describing

the Divine. To me, whereever I have looked, when the language and

trappings are pared back, truth is truth. And then of course, it is

to be experienced, and there is nothing really to say. But being

human, it seems we need to talk to each other, and it is a handy way

for us to share and pass down insights through the generations and

across cultures. To me, sadhana is very important, and I do not know

enough about you, or really even most of the folks here on the list,

to know if sadhana is a part of your/their spiritual practice. I

would welcome a sharing of this among us. I'm game if anyone else is.

 

Last night I was reading an old Light of Consciousness magazine, the

topic of which was the Divine Mother. There was an article about

Ramakrishna and Ramprasad. Those who follow the path of the Mother,

at least in my experience, often seem to be oriented toward creative

expression and many of the writings, traditions, etc. are elaborate

with poetic majesty, mystery, joy, and play. So, in this sense, there

may be a kind of jargon associated with this path. (I should say that,

for me, paths are symbolic systems, a kind of software for the

mind/heart/body/spirit, and since we seem to be highly symbolic and

diverse beings, there are many paths, each with it's own language,

predilictions, rituals, imagery, etc. This is true for me whether I

am talking about the Path of the Mother, Tantra, Wicca, the Tarot,

etc.) Because of this, I much appreciate Harsha's intro/blurb for the

group: all paths go somewhere; no paths go nowhere... and I am

reminded of Don Juan's persistant insistence to Carlos Casteneda to

"choose a path with a heart." Well, I could go on, but I won't. I

will just share a recent experience...

I was feeling very bummed out because I was caught in the throes of

one of my habitual reaction patterns. I couldn't think anyway out of

it, and nothing I did helped. I was becoming depressed, and my body

was getting very heavy, so I decided to go for a walk. I put on my

walkman with one of my favorite bhajan tapes (many songs to the

Mother), and took off down the road, which runs alongside the Snake

River here in Payette, Idaho. (All paths do indeed go somewhere, even

in the boonies.) My body began to respond to all of nature around me

and my heart to the songs. I became entranced by the glittering and

flowing of the river, by the wildflowers along the side of the road,

by the wild grasses and dancing leaves, by the hugeness of the sky,

and...

then there was nothing except the experience of All as Mother. Bliss

is just a word, and it is inadequate, as are words like nondual.

Nothing can truly describe these experiences, but I am so glad they

come to me, often unsought, but as gifts from the Divine. I write

songs and poetry and make art because these are the only truly

adequate tools I have to even point in the direction of these

glimpses. Okay, now I will be quiet because I have already used way

too many words. Shanti ~ Linda

[Guest guest]

, nierika@a... wrote:

> Tony wrote:

>

> > >> I must admit though, that I find the non-dual system of jargon,

> > without much sadhana to be absolutely fascinating. I have never

seen

> > such regimentation and inflexibility of thinking <<

>

> Hello Tony. It is nice to meet you. I have been on a six weeks

journey

> through the southwest (looking for a new place to plant myself) and

so have

> been absent from the group. I see there has been a quite lively

conversation

> going on. I am not sure what you mean by jargon, which sounds

somewhat

> perjorative to me. In order to share experience and insight (or

noninsight or

> whatever), words are necessary, at least for most of us, and every

"system"

> has it's own language. As an artist I know very well how things that

sound

> perfectly reasonable to me sound like "jargon" to someone else. I

also

> understand the creative power of words, whether it comes to

describing art

> (and making/breaking artists' careers) or whether it comes to

describing the

> Divine. To me, whereever I have looked, when the language and

trappings are

> pared back, truth is truth. And then of course, it is to be

experienced, and

> there is nothing really to say. But being human, it seems we need to

talk to

> each other, and it is a handy way for us to share and pass down

insights

> through the generations and across cultures. To me, sadhana is very

> important, and I do not know enough about you, or really even most

of the

> folks here on the list, to know if sadhana is a part of your/their

spiritual

> practice. I would welcome a sharing of this among us. I'm game if

anyone else

> is.

>

> Last night I was reading an old Light of Consciousness magazine, the

topic of

> which was the Divine Mother. There was an article about Ramakrishna

and

> Ramprasad. Those who follow the path of the Mother, at least in my

> experience, often seem to be oriented toward creative expression and

many of

> the writings, traditions, etc. are elaborate with poetic majesty,

mystery,

> joy, and play. So, in this sense, there may be a kind of jargon

associated

> with this path. (I should say that, for me, paths are symbolic

systems, a

> kind of software for the mind/heart/body/spirit, and since we seem

to be

> highly symbolic and diverse beings, there are many paths, each with

it's own

> language, predilictions, rituals, imagery, etc. This is true for me

whether I

> am talking about the Path of the Mother, Tantra, Wicca, the Tarot,

etc.)

> Because of this, I much appreciate Harsha's intro/blurb for the

group: all

> paths go somewhere; no paths go nowhere... and I am reminded of Don

Juan's

> persistant insistence to Carlos Casteneda to "choose a path with a

heart."

> Well, I could go on, but I won't. I will just share a recent

experience...

>

> I was feeling very bummed out because I was caught in the throes of

one of my

> habitual reaction patterns. I couldn't think anyway out of it, and

nothing I

> did helped. I was becoming depressed, and my body was getting very

heavy, so

> I decided to go for a walk. I put on my walkman with one of my

favorite

> bhajan tapes (many songs to the Mother), and took off down the road,

which

> runs alongside the Snake River here in Payette, Idaho. (All paths do

indeed

> go somewhere, even in the boonies.) My body began to respond to all

of nature

> around me and my heart to the songs. I became entranced by the

glittering and

> flowing of the river, by the wildflowers along the side of the road,

by the

> wild grasses and dancing leaves, by the hugeness of the sky, and...

> then there was nothing except the experience of All as Mother. Bliss

is just

> a word, and it is inadequate, as are words like nondual. Nothing can

truly

> describe these experiences, but I am so glad they come to me, often

unsought,

> but as gifts from the Divine. I write songs and poetry and make art

because

> these are the only truly adequate tools I have to even point in the

direction

> of these glimpses. Okay, now I will be quiet because I have already

used way

 

Namaste Linda,

 

Yes I also use bhajans to the Divine Mother to lift my attitude

sometimes. There is much joy in that and the natural world. I am not

discounting that, but to me anyway it is a step. Bhakti is a path

which ends up uniting all the yogas as does any yoga.

 

I was being specific about the jargon used by verbal non-dualists, it

is a wonder they don't go around not ever mentioning me or mine or I.

However if words could bring liberation, libraries would have moksha.

 

Notwithstanding all that, I am non dualist in my ultimate sadhana.

However I have found that the lower self enjoys, habits, customs and

other animal identifications. If this lower self is happy it leaves

more room for the higher mind to operate, so to speak. However I never

give any true ultimate validity to this, for I follow Advaita, 'Who am

I?' Koham ----Soham. However for humans a sadhana is important for

most, for purification and concentrative purposes. These lists are

full of all sorts of ideas and really the only purpose they serve is

to keep us talking about spirituality. I used to be a bhakti but now I

am trying to integrate the yogas with Jnana seeming to be predominant

at present. Just a personal choice but I still enjoy the sadhana of

bhajans, japa, and meditation. To keep the lower self happy for it

doesn't like the idea that it doesn't exist, hahahahahaha, anymore

than any animal would.

 

Om Namah Sivaya....Tony.

> too many words. Shanti ~ Linda