Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 > Therefore they are denied by the Buddhists. The > present state of ignorance is due to the > identification of consciousness [chit] with the > insentient [jada] body. Ignorance arises from contact with conscious at any of the six sense 'gates' -if there is lack of awareness at any time -'I hear a sound" (sound consciousness) then this is the birth of 'I' dual from experience. This delusion of'I" arises with contact with any phemonena of mind and body, endures for a moment and then "dies" as a discrete mental event. This is 'rebirth' of 'I' from clinging and grasping moment to moment. There is no "reincarnation" in Buddhism other than this moment to moment birth of 'I' arising out of a mistaken view of reality. When mind has cognizes of the truth of reality, this clinging habit of mind drops, mind/body as 'mine' drops. This is both gradual and then final and absolute relinquishment. Emptiness plus Dependent Origination gives a full explanation of this theory that students must see for themselves. It is very interesting but possibly not of interest to this list so I won't ramble on. Joyce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 > Therefore they are denied by the Buddhists. The > present state of ignorance is due to the > identification of consciousness [chit] with the > insentient [jada] body. Ignorance arises from contact with conscious at any of the six sense 'gates' -if there is lack of awareness at any time -'I hear a sound" (sound consciousness) then this is the birth of 'I' dual from experience. This delusion of'I" arises with contact with any phemonena of mind and body, endures for a moment and then "dies" as a discrete mental event. This is 'rebirth' of 'I' from clinging and grasping moment to moment. There is no "reincarnation" in Buddhism other than this moment to moment birth of 'I' arising out of a mistaken view of reality. When mind has cognizes of the truth of reality, this clinging habit of mind drops, mind/body as 'mine' drops. This is both gradual and then final and absolute relinquishment. Emptiness plus Dependent Origination gives a full explanation of this theory that students must see for themselves. It is very interesting but possibly not of interest to this list so I won't ramble on. Joyce Hi Joyce -- Yes, it's interesting. It's an explanation that depends on sense gates and contact leading to a sense of "I." Of course, the explanation doesn't give the full explanation for how consciousness, sense gate, or tendency to "I" arise (except that they arise dependently ;-). Of course, sects do try, and all kinds of systems are generated. Yet, when these systems are explained, they lead to other unexplained aspects. There's no such thing as a complete explanation! (Although some are rich and elegant, others superficial and annoying ;-). Like the statement "This statement is true" there's no way to verify the core assumptions of any system or explanation. If any and all explanations are ultimately incomplete, then my "home" is the incompleteness. The incompleteness now *is* completeness. There are many metaphors for this resting place of no-place. The concept that samsara is nirvana, (with samsara as birth and death or time-bound experience, and nirvana as emptiness or openness), is a nice metaphor! Dependently originating, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 , Daniel Berkow <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > > > Therefore they are denied by the Buddhists. The > > > present state of ignorance is due to the > > > identification of consciousness [chit] with the > > > insentient [jada] body. > > > >Ignorance arises from contact with conscious at any of the six sense > >'gates' -if there is lack of awareness at any time -'I hear a > >sound" (sound consciousness) then this is the birth of 'I' dual from > >experience. This delusion of'I" arises with contact with any phemonena of > >mind and body, endures for a moment and then "dies" as a discrete mental > >event. This is 'rebirth' of 'I' from clinging and grasping moment to > >moment. There is no "reincarnation" in Buddhism other than this moment to > >moment birth of 'I' arising out of a mistaken view of reality. When mind > >has cognizes of the truth of reality, this clinging habit of mind drops, > >mind/body as 'mine' drops. This is both gradual and then final and > >absolute relinquishment. > > > >Emptiness plus Dependent Origination gives a full explanation of this > >theory that students must see for themselves. It is very interesting but > >possibly not of interest to this list so I won't ramble on. > > > >Joyce > > Hi Joyce -- > > Yes, it's interesting. > > It's an explanation that depends on > sense gates and contact leading > to a sense of "I." > > Of course, the explanation doesn't > give the full explanation > for how consciousness, > sense gate, or tendency to "I" > arise (except that they arise > dependently ;-). > > Of course, sects do try, and all kinds > of systems are generated. > Yet, when these systems are explained, > they lead to other unexplained > aspects. > > There's no such thing as a complete > explanation! (Although > some are rich and elegant, > others superficial and annoying ;-). > > Like the statement "This statement is > true" there's no way to verify the > core assumptions of any system or > explanation. > > If any and all explanations are > ultimately incomplete, then my > "home" is the incompleteness. > The incompleteness now *is* > completeness. > > There are many metaphors for this > resting place of no-place. > > The concept that samsara is nirvana, > (with samsara as birth and death > or time-bound experience, > and nirvana as emptiness or > openness), is a nice metaphor! > > Dependently originating, > Dan Namaste All, And if it never happened at all, why not find that out instead of finding out what this never happened creation and ego is...ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 Namaste All, And if it never happened at all, why not find that out instead of finding out what this never happened creation and ego is...ONS..Tony. Great question. I remember someone asking Sasaki Roshi something similar, why do we have to go through all this to get back to where we started. He paused for a long time and then said..........."yes"....... Over to you 'knowing' knowing via Dan Joyce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Namaste All, And if it never happened at all, why not find that out instead of finding out what this never happened creation and ego is...ONS..Tony. Dear ?, Sure. And by the by: What never happened? Are you saying anything? Whom is speaking to whom about what? Find something out? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 , Daniel Berkow <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > >Namaste All, > > > >And if it never happened at all, why not find that out instead of > >finding out what this never happened creation and ego is...ONS..Tony. > > Dear ?, > > Sure. > And by the by: > What never happened? > Are you saying anything? > Whom is speaking to whom about what? > Find something out? > > ? Namaste Dan, Yes sometimes out is in and a thorn can be a blunt stick....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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