Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Q: Are the past and future mere imagination? Maharshi: Yes, even the present is mere imagination, for the sense of time is purely mental. Space is similarly mental. Therefore birth and rebirth, which take place in time and space, cannot be other than imagination. I am the first one to admit that I am phisophically challanged, but if anyone can give me a better understanding it would be welcomed. Is Ramana only saying that all of mindville are concepts and therefore just imaginary? Does that not include the concept of the SELF? Dont we have to differentiate here between a brick wall and a blue sky to function? Thanks in advance, Love Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 , "COMO KASHA" <lostnfoundation> wrote: Hi Alton, you asked: Dont we have to differentiate here between a brick wall and a blue sky to function? --- No. Nothing happens now - it doesn't need help to function. If you meet the Buddha on the road - kill yourself. Love, james > Q: > Are the past and future mere imagination? > > Maharshi: > Yes, even the present is mere imagination, > for the sense of time is purely mental. > Space is similarly mental. > Therefore birth and rebirth, which take place in > time and space, cannot be other than imagination. > > I am the first one to admit that I am phisophically challanged, but > if anyone can give me a better understanding it would be welcomed. > > Is Ramana only saying that all of mindville are concepts and > therefore just imaginary? Does that not include the concept of the > SELF? > > Thanks in advance, > Love > Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 , "COMO KASHA" <lostnfoundation> wrote: > Q: > Are the past and future mere imagination? > > Maharshi: > Yes, even the present is mere imagination, > for the sense of time is purely mental. > Space is similarly mental. > Therefore birth and rebirth, which take place in > time and space, cannot be other than imagination. > > I am the first one to admit that I am phisophically challanged, but > if anyone can give me a better understanding it would be welcomed. > > Is Ramana only saying that all of mindville are concepts and > therefore just imaginary? Does that not include the concept of the > SELF? > Dont we have to differentiate here between a brick wall and a blue > sky to function? > > Thanks in advance, > Love > Alton Namaste Alton, The ultimate truth is that yes nothing ever happened or ever existed. Not even the Self of Sat Chit Ananda/Saguna Brahman....The Self that many sages talk about as being or having bliss etc is the Saguna, for their audience in many cases wouldn't understand. IMO...ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 James:> If you meet the Buddha on the road - kill yourself. LOL!!! What if Buddha happens to be the road and the meeting? Turns out I have been dead for miles !!! Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 COMO KASHA [lostnfoundation] Friday, June 15, 2001 11:31 AM Is Ramana being dismissive? I am the first one to admit that I am phisophically challanged, but if anyone can give me a better understanding it would be welcomed. Is Ramana only saying that all of mindville are concepts and therefore just imaginary? Does that not include the concept of the SELF? Dont we have to differentiate here between a brick wall and a blue sky to function? Thanks in advance, Love Alton Yes. The concepts have meaning only in relationship to each other. Unity has a meaning in comparison to Diversity. The term "concept" itself is a concept. Concepts refer to each other to justify their existence. It is not clear what the meaning of meaning is. Therefore, there is no harm in differentiating between a brick wall and the sky. You will never meet a Buddha on the Path because You are the Path and the Buddha. From your Heart pours the rain of compassion on the whole universe. You are raining on your own parade Alton! But it is a good rain. . So Smile. Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Q: Are the past and future mere imagination? Maharshi: Yes, even the present is mere imagination, for the sense of time is purely mental. Space is similarly mental. Therefore birth and rebirth, which take place in time and space, cannot be other than imagination. I am the first one to admit that I am phisophically challanged, but if anyone can give me a better understanding it would be welcomed. Is Ramana only saying that all of mindville are concepts and therefore just imaginary? Does that not include the concept of the SELF? Dont we have to differentiate here between a brick wall and a blue sky to function? Thanks in advance, Love Alton Dear Alton, The differentiation occurs "automatically", discrimination is "spontaneous wisdom." Yes, the concept "Self" is included as imagination. Who are you before placed as "someone" within the construct time, space, memory, and perception? Namaste, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Who are you before placed as "someone" within the construct time, space, memory, and perception? Namaste, Dan Answer: DONOMIND ONS Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Who are you before placed as "someone" within the construct time, space, memory, and perception? Namaste, Dan Answer: DONOMIND ONS Alton Yes. And, if DONOMIND is "thus," what has happened to "someone"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Hi Alton, >> Q: >> Are the past and future mere imagination? >> >> Maharshi: >> Yes, even the present is mere imagination, >> for the sense of time is purely mental. >> Space is similarly mental. >> Therefore birth and rebirth, which take place in >> time and space, cannot be other than imagination. >> >> I am the first one to admit that I am phisophically challanged, but >> if anyone can give me a better understanding it would be welcomed. >> >> Is Ramana only saying that all of mindville are concepts and >> therefore just imaginary? Does that not include the concept of the >> SELF? >> Dont we have to differentiate here between a brick wall and a blue >> sky to function? He's talking about the nature of time and space. They are illusions, but that doesn't mean you can't sit down on a perfectly solid chair while using the illusion. Time is an illusion. Knowing that, you can contact someone when his apparent time is three hours earlier than your time. Or ahead of yours. Live in the eternal present, in the moment. All of my apparently "past" and "future" lives are happening simultaneously, and I am the one having all these experiences. Talking about the illusory nature of space and time doesn't mean that they aren't "real" in some sense. Be cool. Love, Dharma >Tony: >The ultimate truth is that yes nothing ever happened or ever existed. When you talk like this, you are speaking from within time, from the standpoint of time. You are placing yourself in this present and using verbs in the past tense. In other words, you are accepting past-present-future time and making your statements in that context. You accept "normal" time yourself. If you believed what you say, you would stop writing. You wouldn't argue about Tim McVeigh if you really believed he never existed. Or that you never existed. ))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Thanks everyone. I love all the help I get here. Love you love us, Dont knock, no one is home anymore, I hope. Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Dear Alton, There are some differences between what Ramana said then and what beings of similar clarity say now... The audience is also very different.... There are a few things that I got from Gautama Shakyamuni that will not be repeated by current beings of similar clarity. Even Jesus knew that in the end the cross was an error... Good thing he figured this thing out by coming up with the Eleuterios (helper or holy spirit). There are perceptions and conceptions. Perceptions are data, measurements. It is good to read up and get some understanding on quantum mechanics and quantum measurement. We need to update ourselves when it comes to a new appreciation of what ENERGY is in all its formations and formulations. THIS IS IT still, however we need to use a different language based as much as possible on contemporary science, not some amalgamated soup mix of outdated truisms. Science ain't there for nothing.... it is part of Plato's or Socrates' admonition to "Gnoti Seauton", "Know Yourself" which can also mean "Find out for yourself." There is no external authority on truth..., when self doubt is gone truth is uncovered, when the question is gone no answer is even needed. There is only self evidence... no matter what anybody says of whatever stature.... I know that I am... I know that for sure... And my wish is that every being will recover the same self evidence.... No use to spread doubt, I rather see a fool who is sure of himself than a doubting petulant bitter snob who only knows self righteousness and measures others against it. (Hey Wim, speak for yourself... :-) But then what do I know about anybody but... that they WILL figure it out... self evidence is by definition eventually undeniable... Love, Wim PS. Oops, forgot about conceptions. Conceptions are discardable mental constructs that we employ 'for the time being' to understand the seeming complexity of the world, so that we may discover the simplicity of it all. Conceptions are by definition of a temporary nature. When Ramana uses the word BLIH-BLAH-BLOH, it is usually translated as "imagination", or "not real", something "mental", sometimes he means "concept" sometimes "notion", etc. Imagination in our language does not have all those meanings... Imagination is not the opposite of reality. Reality is not the opposite of imagination. Reality is the only thing there is. 'Nothing' is not the opposite of something, or to say it better with the same meaning : Nothing is the opposite of something. Nothing does not even not exist, that is why we call it nothing. Imagination is not the opposite of reality. Imagination does not exist, it is not real... that is why we call it illusive. Reality is. Being is... "What is not" is a only a mind boggle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 , Dharma <deva@L...> wrote: > > Talking about the illusory nature of space and time doesn't mean that they > aren't "real" in some sense. Be cool. > > Love, > Dharma > > >Tony: > >The ultimate truth is that yes nothing ever happened or ever existed. > > When you talk like this, you are speaking from within time, from the > standpoint of time. You are placing yourself in this present and using > verbs in the past tense. In other words, you are accepting > past-present-future time and making your statements in that context. > > You accept "normal" time yourself. If you believed what you say, you would > stop writing. You wouldn't argue about Tim McVeigh if you really believed > he never existed. Or that you never existed. ))) Namaste Dharma, Does the dream character in your dream not exist? as a dream, does it disappear? No. As Sankara said it is real enough whilst one is in it. However that doesn't mean one should believe it any more than believing a more subtle dream is true.....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2001 Report Share Posted June 16, 2001 wimsan...must be a dutch thing or is a a catholic thing or a tantric kundalini thing or a buddhist thing or a sufi thing or a taoist thing or, how about this, a universal mystical thing....what you say always seem to ring true when i test it against my own way and practice....and i can barely say of a word of it yet....ik hou van jou.....can't spell it either (but neither can you true dutch ones or us wanna bes).....white wolfe emigrates to haarlem this wednesday.....sold all and following my beloved i am....doei.....ciao.....seeya....whatever.....namaste......^^~~~~~ > Dear Alton, > > There are some differences between what Ramana said then and what beings > of similar clarity say now... The audience is also very different.... > There are a few things that I got from Gautama Shakyamuni that will not > be repeated by current beings of similar clarity. > Even Jesus knew that in the end the cross was an error... Good thing he > figured this thing out by coming up with the Eleuterios (helper or holy > spirit). > > There are perceptions and conceptions. > Perceptions are data, measurements. It is good to read up and get some > understanding on quantum mechanics and quantum measurement. We need to > update ourselves when it comes to a new appreciation of what ENERGY is > in all its formations and formulations. > THIS IS IT still, however we need to use a different language based as > much as possible on contemporary science, not some amalgamated soup mix > of outdated truisms. Science ain't there for nothing.... it is part of > Plato's or Socrates' admonition to "Gnoti Seauton", "Know Yourself" > which can also mean "Find out for yourself." There is no external > authority on truth..., when self doubt is gone truth is uncovered, when > the question is gone no answer is even needed. There is only self > evidence... no matter what anybody says of whatever stature.... I know > that I am... I know that for sure... > And my wish is that every being will recover the same self evidence.... > No use to spread doubt, I rather see a fool who is sure of himself than > a doubting petulant bitter snob who only knows self righteousness and > measures others against it. (Hey Wim, speak for yourself... :-) > But then what do I know about anybody but... that they WILL figure it > out... self evidence is by definition eventually undeniable... > > Love, Wim > > PS. > Oops, forgot about conceptions. > Conceptions are discardable mental constructs that we employ 'for the > time being' to understand the seeming complexity of the world, so that > we may discover the simplicity of it all. Conceptions are by definition > of a temporary nature. > > When Ramana uses the word BLIH-BLAH-BLOH, it is usually translated as > "imagination", or "not real", something "mental", sometimes he means > "concept" sometimes "notion", etc. Imagination in our language does not > have all those meanings... > Imagination is not the opposite of reality. > Reality is not the opposite of imagination. > Reality is the only thing there is. > 'Nothing' is not the opposite of something, > or to say it better with the same meaning : > Nothing is the opposite of something. > > Nothing does not even not exist, that is why we call it nothing. > Imagination is not the opposite of reality. > Imagination does not exist, it is not real... that is why we call it > illusive. > Reality is. > Being is... > "What is not" is a only a mind boggle... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2001 Report Share Posted June 16, 2001 Lieve Mark, Hope to visit you and Mira one day In Haarlem... I come from Delft originally, a beautiful museum there, the Prinsenhof and the Oude Jan church. And so many canals, and that 'kinda ugly' Delft Blue pottery that I now finally start to appreciate. Oh, you will love the rivers, the polders, the dunes, the meadows, you will learn to love the rain, the wind, the beaches. An you will love the open air markets... and flowers and flowers and flowers.... You will learn to kiss the Dutch way, a kiss on each cheek and one on the lips... For beer though, go to Belgium, to Brugge and drink tripple "Trappisten Bier" from Koningshoeven. The beer glasses by themselves are an experience. Oh, and do not forget deserts, slagroom and appel gebak and speculaas. You may need to learn to love the "doggy doo". There are wonderful church buildings in Holland with baroque and classical concerts. And there are the museums... the Hoge Veluwe, the Kroeller Mueller, and enough windmills to fight to keep Tony busy for a lifetime. In Holland everything is small, when you put "-je" or "-tje" behind all your nouns you can't go wrong. You will find great souls there, hidden behind "lieve hartjes". Zo je gaat dus een reisje maken naar dat lieve Hollandje van me? Ik ben jalours, maar niet heus. Veel Liefs an Sukses, Wim - "White Wolfe" <valemar <> Friday, June 15, 2001 8:14 PM Re: Is Ramana being dismissive? > wimsan...must be a dutch thing or is a a catholic thing or a tantric > kundalini thing or a buddhist thing or a sufi thing or a taoist thing or, > how about this, a universal mystical thing....what you say always seem to > ring true when i test it against my own way and practice....and i can barely > say of a word of it yet....ik hou van jou.....can't spell it either (but > neither can you true dutch ones or us wanna bes).....white wolfe emigrates > to haarlem this wednesday.....sold all and following my beloved i > am....doei.....ciao.....seeya....whatever.....namaste......^^~~~~~ > > > > > Dear Alton, > > > > There are some differences between what Ramana said then and what beings > > of similar clarity say now... The audience is also very different.... > > There are a few things that I got from Gautama Shakyamuni that will not > > be repeated by current beings of similar clarity. > > Even Jesus knew that in the end the cross was an error... Good thing he > > figured this thing out by coming up with the Eleuterios (helper or holy > > spirit). > > > > There are perceptions and conceptions. > > Perceptions are data, measurements. It is good to read up and get some > > understanding on quantum mechanics and quantum measurement. We need to > > update ourselves when it comes to a new appreciation of what ENERGY is > > in all its formations and formulations. > > THIS IS IT still, however we need to use a different language based as > > much as possible on contemporary science, not some amalgamated soup mix > > of outdated truisms. Science ain't there for nothing.... it is part of > > Plato's or Socrates' admonition to "Gnoti Seauton", "Know Yourself" > > which can also mean "Find out for yourself." There is no external > > authority on truth..., when self doubt is gone truth is uncovered, when > > the question is gone no answer is even needed. There is only self > > evidence... no matter what anybody says of whatever stature.... I know > > that I am... I know that for sure... > > And my wish is that every being will recover the same self evidence.... > > No use to spread doubt, I rather see a fool who is sure of himself than > > a doubting petulant bitter snob who only knows self righteousness and > > measures others against it. (Hey Wim, speak for yourself... :-) > > But then what do I know about anybody but... that they WILL figure it > > out... self evidence is by definition eventually undeniable... > > > > Love, Wim > > > > PS. > > Oops, forgot about conceptions. > > Conceptions are discardable mental constructs that we employ 'for the > > time being' to understand the seeming complexity of the world, so that > > we may discover the simplicity of it all. Conceptions are by definition > > of a temporary nature. > > > > When Ramana uses the word BLIH-BLAH-BLOH, it is usually translated as > > "imagination", or "not real", something "mental", sometimes he means > > "concept" sometimes "notion", etc. Imagination in our language does not > > have all those meanings... > > Imagination is not the opposite of reality. > > Reality is not the opposite of imagination. > > Reality is the only thing there is. > > 'Nothing' is not the opposite of something, > > or to say it better with the same meaning : > > Nothing is the opposite of something. > > > > Nothing does not even not exist, that is why we call it nothing. > > Imagination is not the opposite of reality. > > Imagination does not exist, it is not real... that is why we call it > > illusive. > > Reality is. > > Being is... > > "What is not" is a only a mind boggle... > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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