Guest guest Posted June 19, 2001 Report Share Posted June 19, 2001 In a message dated 06/19/2001 4:15:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, aoclery writes: << Oh the little bird is recovering so I will see if I can't find his nest and return him, in case an instinctive animal meat eater happens upon him. >> There is compassion in one who stops to help a little wounded bird.... Norma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2001 Report Share Posted June 19, 2001 Namaste All, Our Society in the West, particularly N.America, is in perennial adolescence. Where people do not appreciate straight talk, and are given to lying and using euphemisms to explain behaviour. Also taking responsibility for one's actions is absent mostly. There is an atmosphere of political correctness and quiet self-indulgence. This goes a long way to explain why people react badly to a straight shooting Irishman like myself, 'They can't handle the truth', Jack Nicholson hahahah. People don't want their behaviour, which causes violence and suffering to be presented to them. They don't want to see themselves in a mirror. This would be all fine if this wasn't ostensibly a spiritual list, although it has degenerated somewhat since it's inception. So things become so adolescent and distorted that pointing out suffering becomes regarded as insulting and violence itself. This is the upside down world syndrome. People talk about cuts of meat and fish, antiseptically, when there ma y be people who are offended by this and may regard it as cruel, violent, perverted and disgusting. (Yet people like me who point this out are regarded as being violent.hahahahahahahahahahah) Like describing the work of Mengele, but then he was employed by the CIA wasn't he? I don't care for myself, I have put this body on the line many times, to worry about a bunch of intellectual adolescents of any age, and what their opionions are.....ONS.....Tony. Oh the little bird is recovering so I will see if I can't find his nest and return him, in case an instinctive animal meat eater happens upon him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2001 Report Share Posted June 19, 2001 On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:07:16 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery writes: > Namaste All, > > Our Society in the West, particularly N.America, is in perennial > adolescence. Where people do not appreciate straight talk, and are > given to lying and using euphemisms to explain behaviour. Also > taking > responsibility for one's actions is absent mostly. There is an > atmosphere of political correctness and quiet self-indulgence. This is entirely beside the point, Tony. Nobody nominated you as the list ahimsa instructor, and the list is specifically non- confrontational in the spirit of traditional satsangh. It is not that you are doing anything terribly wrorng in the absolute sense, it's simply that your chosen modus operandi is inappropriate in this venue. I'm sure it's fine in plenty of others. > > This goes a long way to explain why people react badly to a straight > shooting Irishman like myself, 'They can't handle the truth', Jack > Nicholson hahahah. People don't want their behaviour, which causes > violence and suffering to be presented to them. They don't want to > see themselves in a mirror. Tony, you have no *idea* what it's like to deal with a real straight shooter, but confrontation of even the purest sort is not appropriate here either. I tend toward telling it like it is myself, but this is Harshadeva's house and not mine or yours, kapiche? You may now resume patting yourself loudly on the back. > > This would be all fine if this wasn't ostensibly a spiritual list, > although it has degenerated somewhat since it's inception. I agree, and certain self- appointed critics are the main area of degeneration, at least with reference to the list charter. > > So things become so adolescent and distorted that pointing out > suffering becomes regarded as insulting and violence itself. You can't honestly believe that the list needs you continually and loudly doing that, can you? The very fact that folks are d indicates a keen awareness of suffering. How each r deals with that is none of your business unless there is a request for views on the matter is the course of discussion. Out-of-context preaching is not helpful to anyone except perhaps yourself. This is a satsangha, not your personal lectern or pulpit. Using it as such amounts to violence, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Well liked posters have been reprimanded for far less than has so far been endured from you over the past few months. > This is > the upside down world syndrome. No it isn't, it is the world as it is! > > People talk about cuts of meat and fish, antiseptically, when there > may be people who are offended by this and may regard it as cruel, > violent, perverted and disgusting. (Yet people like me who point > this out are regarded as being violent.hahahahahahahahahahah) Like > describing the work of Mengele, but then he was employed by the CIA > wasn't he? If people are offended by any post, they are encouraged to speak up, either publicly or via e-mail to Harshadeva. To my knowledge no such complaint has been received from you or any other vegetarian here. > > I don't care for myself, I have put this body on the line many > times, > to worry about a bunch of intellectual adolescents of any age, and > what their opionions are.....ONS.....Tony. Tony, there is only one r here whose behavior I would describe as adolescent. If that behavior persists it is virtually certain that he will hear from the list owner or a designated moderator. It was and is my intent for that to be unnecessary, but apparently that effort does not suffice. He posts too often and with far too much veiled hostility for everyone who doesn't quite see things his way. That is simply intolerable given the charter of , and if he cannot sense that directly, constraints will be imposed. If he doesn't want that to happen, now would be a good time change course. > > Oh the little bird is recovering so I will see if I can't find his > nest and return him, in case an instinctive animal meat eater > happens upon him. > May the bird and its would-be rescuer find peace in accordance with the relevant karma. V'yimru, omayn. http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2001 Report Share Posted June 19, 2001 , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:07:16 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > writes: > > Namaste All, > > > > Our Society in the West, particularly N.America, is in perennial > > adolescence. Where people do not appreciate straight talk, and are > > given to lying and using euphemisms to explain behaviour. Also > > taking > > responsibility for one's actions is absent mostly. There is an > > atmosphere of political correctness and quiet self-indulgence. > > This is entirely beside the > point, Tony. Nobody > nominated you as the list > ahimsa instructor, and the > list is specifically non- > confrontational in the > spirit of traditional > satsangh. It is not that > you are doing anything > terribly wrorng in the > absolute sense, it's simply > that your chosen modus > operandi is inappropriate > in this venue. I'm sure > it's fine in plenty of > others. > > > > This goes a long way to explain why people react badly to a straight > > shooting Irishman like myself, 'They can't handle the truth', Jack > > Nicholson hahahah. People don't want their behaviour, which causes > > violence and suffering to be presented to them. They don't want to > > see themselves in a mirror. > > Tony, you have no *idea* > what it's like to deal > with a real straight > shooter, but confrontation > of even the purest sort is > not appropriate here either. > I tend toward telling it > like it is myself, but this > is Harshadeva's house and > not mine or yours, kapiche? > You may now resume patting > yourself loudly on the back. > > > > This would be all fine if this wasn't ostensibly a spiritual list, > > although it has degenerated somewhat since it's inception. > > I agree, and certain self- > appointed critics are the > main area of degeneration, > at least with reference to > the list charter. > > > > So things become so adolescent and distorted that pointing out > > suffering becomes regarded as insulting and violence itself. > > You can't honestly believe > that the list needs you > continually and loudly > doing that, can you? The > very fact that folks are > d indicates a keen > awareness of suffering. > How each r deals > with that is none of your > business unless there is a > request for views on the > matter is the course of > discussion. Out-of-context > preaching is not helpful to > anyone except perhaps > yourself. This is a > satsangha, not your > personal lectern or pulpit. > Using it as such amounts to > violence, no ifs, ands, or > buts about it. Well liked > posters have been > reprimanded for far less > than has so far been endured > from you over the past few > months. > > > This is > > the upside down world syndrome. > > No it isn't, it is the world > as it is! > > > > People talk about cuts of meat and fish, antiseptically, when there > > may be people who are offended by this and may regard it as cruel, > > violent, perverted and disgusting. (Yet people like me who point > > this out are regarded as being violent.hahahahahahahahahahah) Like > > describing the work of Mengele, but then he was employed by the CIA > > wasn't he? > > If people are offended by any > post, they are encouraged to > speak up, either publicly or > via e-mail to Harshadeva. To > my knowledge no such complaint > has been received from you or > any other vegetarian here. > > > > I don't care for myself, I have put this body on the line many > > times, > > to worry about a bunch of intellectual adolescents of any age, and > > what their opionions are.....ONS.....Tony. > > Tony, there is only one > r here whose behavior > I would describe as adolescent. > If that behavior persists it is > virtually certain that he will > hear from the list owner or a > designated moderator. It was > and is my intent for that to be > unnecessary, but apparently > that effort does not suffice. > He posts too often and with far > too much veiled hostility for > everyone who doesn't quite see > things his way. That is simply > intolerable given the charter > of , and if he > cannot sense that directly, > constraints will be imposed. > If he doesn't want that to > happen, now would be a good > time change course. > > > > Oh the little bird is recovering so I will see if I can't find his > > nest and return him, in case an instinctive animal meat eater > > happens upon him. > > > May the bird and its would-be > rescuer find peace in > accordance with the relevant > karma. V'yimru, omayn. Namaste, This post exemplifies exactly what I am talking about, not seeing the trees for words. Harshadeva, True Guru? Who is that? Ramana Maharshi. There is so much hypocrisy in your post, are you the new high sheriff moderator, threatening me? What are you frightened of? It is just your opinion that pointing out something adharmic is veiled violence and hostility. There is no violence in my posts, they are blunt and as it is, that's all. No diplomacy at all. The only motive is to save suffering for sentient beings, if people get upset that they feel guilty and attack me, is that my fault? There is no 'my way', to see, if you cannot see that torture unfair death and suffering are wrong that is not my fault. It isn't even that, it is the rationalisation and making excuses and then posting about spirituality that is interesting I find. Well now I will complain on behalf of myself and others that talking of sushis and steaks etc, I find to be disgusting and barbarous and violent. It is no different than describing Dr Mengele's barbarous experiments in the concentration camps. Or what happens in the universities, I see 30,000 animals died in the Houston Floods, dogs adn mice that are experimented on by deranged academics. However if you are a moderator and want to expel me, go for your life drongo, there you are.an excuse for you to pontificate on.....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2001 Report Share Posted June 19, 2001 On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:22:15 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery writes: > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:07:16 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > > writes: > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > Our Society in the West, particularly N.America, is in perennial > > > > adolescence. Where people do not appreciate straight talk, and > are > > > given to lying and using euphemisms to explain behaviour. Also > > > taking > > > responsibility for one's actions is absent mostly. There is an > > > atmosphere of political correctness and quiet self-indulgence. > > > > This is entirely beside the > > point, Tony. Nobody > > nominated you as the list > > ahimsa instructor, and the > > list is specifically non- > > confrontational in the > > spirit of traditional > > satsangh. It is not that > > you are doing anything > > terribly wrorng in the > > absolute sense, it's simply > > that your chosen modus > > operandi is inappropriate > > in this venue. I'm sure > > it's fine in plenty of > > others. > > > > > > This goes a long way to explain why people react badly to a > straight > > > shooting Irishman like myself, 'They can't handle the truth', > Jack > > > Nicholson hahahah. People don't want their behaviour, which > causes > > > violence and suffering to be presented to them. They don't want > to > > > see themselves in a mirror. > > > > Tony, you have no *idea* > > what it's like to deal > > with a real straight > > shooter, but confrontation > > of even the purest sort is > > not appropriate here either. > > I tend toward telling it > > like it is myself, but this > > is Harshadeva's house and > > not mine or yours, kapiche? > > You may now resume patting > > yourself loudly on the back. > > > > > > This would be all fine if this wasn't ostensibly a spiritual > list, > > > although it has degenerated somewhat since it's inception. > > > > I agree, and certain self- > > appointed critics are the > > main area of degeneration, > > at least with reference to > > the list charter. > > > > > > So things become so adolescent and distorted that pointing out > > > suffering becomes regarded as insulting and violence itself. > > > > You can't honestly believe > > that the list needs you > > continually and loudly > > doing that, can you? The > > very fact that folks are > > d indicates a keen > > awareness of suffering. > > How each r deals > > with that is none of your > > business unless there is a > > request for views on the > > matter is the course of > > discussion. Out-of-context > > preaching is not helpful to > > anyone except perhaps > > yourself. This is a > > satsangha, not your > > personal lectern or pulpit. > > Using it as such amounts to > > violence, no ifs, ands, or > > buts about it. Well liked > > posters have been > > reprimanded for far less > > than has so far been endured > > from you over the past few > > months. > > > > > This is > > > the upside down world syndrome. > > > > No it isn't, it is the world > > as it is! > > > > > > People talk about cuts of meat and fish, antiseptically, when > there > > > may be people who are offended by this and may regard it as > cruel, > > > violent, perverted and disgusting. (Yet people like me who point > > > > this out are regarded as being violent.hahahahahahahahahahah) > Like > > > describing the work of Mengele, but then he was employed by the > > CIA > > > wasn't he? > > > > If people are offended by any > > post, they are encouraged to > > speak up, either publicly or > > via e-mail to Harshadeva. To > > my knowledge no such complaint > > has been received from you or > > any other vegetarian here. > > > > > > I don't care for myself, I have put this body on the line many > > > times, > > > to worry about a bunch of intellectual adolescents of any age, > and > > > what their opionions are.....ONS.....Tony. > > > > Tony, there is only one > > r here whose behavior > > I would describe as adolescent. > > If that behavior persists it is > > virtually certain that he will > > hear from the list owner or a > > designated moderator. It was > > and is my intent for that to be > > unnecessary, but apparently > > that effort does not suffice. > > He posts too often and with far > > too much veiled hostility for > > everyone who doesn't quite see > > things his way. That is simply > > intolerable given the charter > > of , and if he > > cannot sense that directly, > > constraints will be imposed. > > If he doesn't want that to > > happen, now would be a good > > time change course. > > > > > > Oh the little bird is recovering so I will see if I can't find > > his > > > nest and return him, in case an instinctive animal meat eater > > > happens upon him. > > > > > May the bird and its would-be > > rescuer find peace in > > accordance with the relevant > > karma. V'yimru, omayn. > Namaste, > > This post exemplifies exactly what I am talking about, not seeing > the trees for words. Harshadeva, True Guru? Who is that? Ramana > Maharshi. There is so much hypocrisy in your post, are you the new > high sheriff moderator, threatening me? I'm not threatening you, I'm just telling you what's already in the works if you don't find a way to participate within the list charter. How you respond is entirely up to you. So far, it's not encouraging. If you see "hypocrisy" in that effort, so be it. > What are you frightened of? The degeneration of this list into Tony's personal primal scream therapy session. That will not be allowed to continue. > It > is just your opinion that pointing out something adharmic is veiled > violence and hostility. Nothing is "adharmic," all existence is proceeding as per the divine will, including the moderators concern about your manner of posting here. > There is no violence in my posts, they are > blunt and as it is, that's all. They amount to high-on-the- horse bullying. That is violent. > No diplomacy at all. No common courtesy either. > The only motive > is to save suffering for sentient beings, if people get upset that > they feel guilty and attack me, is that my fault? They don't attack you out of guilt, they resent you because you confront in a venue where confrontation is not permitted. If you want to participate here you must find a way to communicate that is appropriate for and in a satsangha. > > There is no 'my way', to see, if you cannot see that torture unfair > death and suffering are wrong that is not my fault. I'm not saying they aren't wrong, I'm saying your constant harping is not appropriate in this venue. > It isn't even > that, it is the rationalisation and making excuses and then posting > about spirituality that is interesting I find. I have noticed no particular "rationalisation" -- people eat what they eat, sometimes they mention it in a post. If that offends, the offended are free and encouraged to say so! > > Well now I will complain on behalf of myself and others that talking > of sushis and steaks etc, I find to be disgusting and barbarous and > violent. It is no different than describing Dr Mengele's barbarous > experiments in the concentration camps. Or what happens in the > universities, I see 30,000 animals died in the Houston Floods, dogs > adn mice that are experimented on by deranged academics. Fine, now we know how you feel in detail. Anyone similarly offended, please chime in -- given a broad consensus I'm sure the moderators will consider that view. > > However if you are a moderator and want to expel me, go for your > life drongo, there you are.an excuse for you to pontificate > on.....ONS...Tony. > You are one stubborn old Irishman -- little wonder you hung onto Sai Baba for so many years. I *don't* want you expelled, that's the whole point of this exercise! Pax vobiscum, Tony. The wheels will turn as they will. http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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