Are the Vndists,(pron Vindists) the new Nastikas??

[Guest guest]

Namaste All,

 

Yesterday I was ruminating over who the Vndists( Verbal non-dualists)

reminded me of, and it came to me. The Nastikas!!!

Thousands of years ago in Bharat,( India), there was a philosophy

gaining ground that there was no Personal God and that things arose by

themselves. This then allowed these followers to eat meat, drink

intoxicating liquor and satisfy the senses, all these much a no no in

those days.

 

Are the Vndists our new Nastikas? Is this the result of denying the

personal god without sadhana? Ultimately there is no personal god, of

course, but there is whilst one is in it.

 

Is this the easy way, just verbals and then do what one desires?

 

There is great chance of Vndists becoming Nastikas, if some haven't

become them already. The parallels, although separated by thousands of

years are surprising and incredible. Perhaps they are reincarnates

from those early Nastkas.

 

OM Namah Sivaya......Tony.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:53:22 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery

writes:

> Namaste All,

>

> Yesterday I was ruminating over who the Vndists( Verbal

> non-dualists) reminded me of, and it came to me. The Nastikas!!!

> Thousands of years ago in Bharat,( India), there was a philosophy

> gaining ground that there was no Personal God and that things arose

> by themselves. This then allowed these followers to eat meat, drink

> intoxicating liquor and satisfy the senses, all these much a no no

> in those days.

 

So, you figure all those who

don't go by the book as per

Tony are simply rationalizing

their sensory appetites?

>

> Are the Vndists our new Nastikas? Is this the result of denying the

> personal god without sadhana?

 

The Buddha never referred to a

"personal god." Was he also a

neo-Nastika?

> Ultimately there is no personal god, of

> course,

 

Not only "Ultimately," but

actually! Nearly everything

you preach is from the mind-

prison of psychological time!

> but there is whilst one is in it.

 

In *what*, pray tell?

>

> Is this the easy way, just verbals and then do what one desires?

 

I have no idea. Incarnate

life is one of "desires,"

whether it is the desire for

a slab of steaming, charred

flesh or for union with a

"personal god." The object

may differ, but desire is the

energy of incarnate life --

thought may divert or redirect

it, but desire is intrinsic to

incarnation.

>

> There is great chance of Vndists becoming Nastikas, if some haven't

> become them already. The parallels, although separated by thousands

> of

> years are surprising and incredible. Perhaps they are reincarnates

> from those early Nastkas.

 

Perhaps you are wildly

speculating to suit your

conditioned preconceptions

and satisfy your personal

desire to apply pejorative

(and preferably Sanskrit)

labels to all save possibly

yourself.

> OM Namah Sivaya......Tony.

>

Right back atcha, grandpa!

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

>

> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:53:22 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> writes:

> >

> > Are the Vndists our new Nastikas? Is this the result of denying

the

> > personal god without sadhana?

>

> The Buddha never referred to a

> "personal god." Was he also a

> neo-Nastika?

>

Namaste,

 

Buddha had a sadhana and taught ahimsa and withdrawal of the senses.

 

As the vndists say we don't exist give your dinner to the dog, you

don't exist.......ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

 

Please tell me - how does referring to other human beings as

'possible nastikas' (and all the implications) fit in the practise of

Ahimsa when you admit that you do not know that they are - you simply

said that you are reminded?

 

 

Does Ahimsa mean that you have to defend/attack everything and

everybody that reminds you of something 'good'-'bad'?

 

 

Love,

james

 

 

 

, "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

> , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> >

> > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:53:22 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> > writes:

>

> > >

> > > Are the Vndists our new Nastikas? Is this the result of denying

> the

> > > personal god without sadhana?

> >

> > The Buddha never referred to a

> > "personal god." Was he also a

> > neo-Nastika?

> >

> Namaste,

>

> Buddha had a sadhana and taught ahimsa and withdrawal of the senses.

>

> As the vndists say we don't exist give your dinner to the dog, you

> don't exist.......ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 17:01:12 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery

writes:

> , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> >

> > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:53:22 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> > writes:

>

> > >

> > > Are the Vndists our new Nastikas? Is this the result of denying

>

> the

> > > personal god without sadhana?

> >

> > The Buddha never referred to a

> > "personal god." Was he also a

> > neo-Nastika?

> >

> Namaste,

>

> Buddha had a sadhana and taught ahimsa and withdrawal of the

> senses.

 

So, it seems a "personal god"

is not mandatory after all!

>

> As the vndists say we don't exist give your dinner to the dog, you

> don't exist.......ONS...Tony.

>

The body requires food as

does a dog's. Are you the

body to come to such a

specious conclusion and

the ensuing suggestion?

Btw, not having a dog on

premises, I can't

accommodate you, sorry.

Oh, and the Buddha's body

required food too, and it

eventually died from a

painful digestive ailment

-- no matter what

perceptual state it

nominally hosts, the body

has its own agenda.

 

I find it interesting how

you pick and choose which

parts of my post you

address while ignoring

most of it, don't you?

You are as slippery as any

Sophist or Sadducee, sir,

yet you were feckless and

gullible enough to publicly

fawn over Sai Baba's

"materialization" of a gold

lingam just a few short

months ago. What an odd

admixture of the stalwartly

doctinaire and the utterly

naive you are!

 

 

http://come.to/realization

http://www.atman.net/realization

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

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[Guest guest]

, "james traverse" <nisarga@c...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi Tony,

>

> Please tell me - how does referring to other human beings as

> 'possible nastikas' (and all the implications) fit in the practise

of

> Ahimsa when you admit that you do not know that they are - you

simply

> said that you are reminded?

>

>

> Does Ahimsa mean that you have to defend/attack everything and

> everybody that reminds you of something 'good'-'bad'?

>

>

> Love,

> james

Namaste James,

 

Do you know what the Nastikas were? I am saying these Vndists seem

very close to them.......ONS....Tony.

[Guest guest]

, Bruce Morgen <>

> I find it interesting how

> you pick and choose which

> parts of my post you

> address while ignoring

> most of it, don't you?

> You are as slippery as any

> Sophist or Sadducee, sir,

> yet you were feckless and

> gullible enough to publicly

> fawn over Sai Baba's

> "materialization" of a gold

> lingam just a few short

> months ago. What an odd

> admixture of the stalwartly

> doctinaire and the utterly

> naive you are!

 

Namaste Bruce et al,

 

Some parts I didn't think merited an answer from me. So now I'm a

Sadducee or a Sophist. Well sophia means wise, so I'll take that as a

compliment. A sadducee didn't believe in a soul and quite a few other

things. More similar to you than me.

 

I would hardly worry about Sai Baba and his manifestations or

conjuring. Materialisations have been performed by Spiritualists to

Yogis, so why wouldn't I believe that he also could do that? The fact

that he turned out a fraud later doesn't take anything away from me. I

read a lot of Vedanta and Ramana while I was following Sai Baba. He

even recommended Godman's book. You can learn good things from a bad

guru, because the teachings aren't theirs. They teach the Truth

otherwise people wouldn't take an interest. You would probably like

his teachings on Advaita, I did. In fact I liked Sai Baba's teaching

on just about everything. He was the problem not his teachings.

 

However the result was good, after the initial shock, for now I don't

need even the vestiges of a form guru.

 

The only other thing I regret is that it is not safe for me to visit

India right now, as I was involved in the group that exposed him.

This has been relayed to me. I wouldn't worry about this body but I do

owe it to my family not to take egotistical risks.

 

However there is a massive exposure imminent by a group of Indian

journalists and others that will shake the connection between him and

the politicians. Perhaps then it will be safe for me to go to India. I

would like to visit, Ramana's Ashram, Ammachi's and a few

others.......ONS.......Tony.

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

 

You did not answer my question. I asked about Ahimsa -

 

Please tell me - how does referring to other human beings as

'possible nastikas' (and all the implications) fit in the practise

of Ahimsa when you admit that you do not know that they are - you

simply said that you are reminded?

 

Does Ahimsa mean that you have to defend/attack everything

and everybody that reminds you of something 'good'-'bad'?

 

 

 

Love,

james

 

ps - through the kindness of the other list members I am aware of the

definition of 'nastikas' and I am aware of how things 'seem' to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

> , "james traverse" <nisarga@c...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hi Tony,

> >

> > Please tell me - how does referring to other human beings as

> > 'possible nastikas' (and all the implications) fit in the practise

> of

> > Ahimsa when you admit that you do not know that they are - you

> simply

> > said that you are reminded?

> >

> >

> > Does Ahimsa mean that you have to defend/attack everything

and

> > everybody that reminds you of something 'good'-'bad'?

> >

> >

> > Love,

> > james

> Namaste James,

>

> Do you know what the Nastikas were? I am saying these Vndists seem

> very close to them.......ONS....Tony.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:31:55 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery

writes:

> , Bruce Morgen <>

> > I find it interesting how

> > you pick and choose which

> > parts of my post you

> > address while ignoring

> > most of it, don't you?

> > You are as slippery as any

> > Sophist or Sadducee, sir,

> > yet you were feckless and

> > gullible enough to publicly

> > fawn over Sai Baba's

> > "materialization" of a gold

> > lingam just a few short

> > months ago. What an odd

> > admixture of the stalwartly

> > doctinaire and the utterly

> > naive you are!

>

> Namaste Bruce et al,

>

> Some parts I didn't think merited an answer from me.

 

Why thank you, guruji. I

will strive mightily to be

worthy of your attention

now that I understand that.

> So now I'm a

> Sadducee or a Sophist. Well sophia means wise, so I'll take that as

> a compliment.

 

You are really veering on

the edge of idiocy -- it

was an historical reference,

not a linguistic concoction.

Look it up and respond if

you deem it "worthy."

Suffice it to say you'd be

hard put to find "Sophist"

"a compliment" after that.

> A sadducee didn't believe in a soul and quite a few

> other things. More similar to you than me.

 

Like a typical Sadducee,

you went straight for the

letter of the reference and

entirely missed the essence.

>

> I would hardly worry about Sai Baba and his manifestations or

> conjuring. Materialisations have been performed by Spiritualists to

>

> Yogis, so why wouldn't I believe that he also could do that?

 

It wasn't the belief that

inspired the mention, it

was the utter delight and

wonder at the majesty of

your former pet avatar's

silly trickery.

> The fact

> that he turned out a fraud later doesn't take anything away from me.

 

Of course not, the great

"me" is impeccable!

> I

> read a lot of Vedanta and Ramana while I was following Sai Baba.

 

Read, paraphrase, write,

repeat ad infinitum et

ad nauseaum -- the way of

the Saduccee!

>

> He even recommended Godman's book. You can learn good things from a bad

> guru, because the teachings aren't theirs.

 

You can also learn a lot

about your own nature from

your attachment to a false

guru, if you have the

stomach to confront that.

> They teach the Truth

> otherwise people wouldn't take an interest.

 

That's ludicrous, people

take interest for all sorts

reasons, congruence with

existing tenets is only one

of them.

> You would probably like

> his teachings on Advaita, I did.

 

Well, that's certainly an

accurate predictor of what

I would like -- *you* liked

them! :-)

> In fact I liked Sai Baba's teaching

> on just about everything. He was the problem not his teachings.

 

Ah, so they are in fact

separable. See how easy it

is for a well-trained

parrot to succeed!

>

> However the result was good, after the initial shock, for now I

> don't need even the vestiges of a form guru.

 

Mazel tov!

>

> The only other thing I regret is that it is not safe for me to visit

> India right now, as I was involved in the group that exposed him.

 

That's too bad -- sounds like

your ex-guruji has quite a

violent following on the

subcontinent.

> This has been relayed to me. I wouldn't worry about this body but I

> do owe it to my family not to take egotistical risks.

 

Agreed.

>

> However there is a massive exposure imminent by a group of Indian

> journalists and others that will shake the connection between him

> and the politicians.

 

We'll see, that'd be a very

fortunate development indeed.

> Perhaps then it will be safe for me to go to India. I

> would like to visit, Ramana's Ashram, Ammachi's and a few

> others.......ONS.......Tony.

 

I hope for your sake it

becomes safe, at which time

I will happily bid you bon

voyage.

 

 

http://come.to/realization

http://www.atman.net/realization

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

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