Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 Some animals that I have experienced have both intellect and fear. What is the view of others here. Love, Alton "Viorica Weissman" <viorica@z...> Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:11 am intellect wants security Why do I experience so much fear and anxiety? Human beings assume that basically, essentially, they are different from other objects. But they are different only in the sense that human beings , like animals and insects , have been additionally imbued with sentience. The human beings have sentience plus intellect. Therefore the human being , because of the presence of intellect, wants to ask questions. By the same token , it is intellect which makes him miserable. The animal, when there is a sense of impending danger, is at once alert. But when the danger is gone the animal relaxes. In the human being, under those circumstances, the intellect makes him look forward. He says, "What do I do if something happens? What do I do if this doesn't happen?" So intellect is what brings about the sense of fear, because it is intellect which wants security. It is intellect which rejects change and wants security. In the case of the animal, because the kind of thinking mind is not there, it's not bothered about security. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Consciousness Speaks Ramesh Balsekar ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 i'm not sure about other animal species, but certainly all the mammalian species (mammals) seem to be capable of love and affection - - which is based on the sense of touch, and the fact that mammals nurse their young and other related things. Fear is a certainty... i don't know about "intellect," depends on the definition. The idea that Homo Sapiens (mankind) is a "higher" species is incredibly egotistical imo, and is partly responsible for the current decimation of the planet (along with that much-touted "intellect"). Namaste, Omkara , "COMO KASHA" <lostnfoundation> wrote: > Some animals that I have experienced have both intellect and fear. > What is the view of others here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 There might be some terminology confusion here. Animals are sometime quite agile mentally, but an intellect to me implies language and formal reasoning. Likewise animals fear as an aspect of survival instinct -- it seems as if they fear pain and loss, but only humans seem to fear personal extinction, their own mortality. Animals don't seem to connect the fact of physical death with themselves, even when they lose a human or animal companion they don't seem to connect that with themselves. Of course since we don't have a concise language in common with animals a good deal of the above is unscientific speculation based on observed behaviors. On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:22:19 -0000 "COMO KASHA" <lostnfoundation writes: > Some animals that I have experienced have both intellect and fear. > What is the view of others here. > > Love, > Alton > > > "Viorica Weissman" <viorica@z...> > Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:11 am > intellect wants security > > > > Why do I experience so much fear and anxiety? > > Human beings assume that basically, essentially, they > are different from other objects. But they are different > only in the sense that human beings , like animals and > insects , have been additionally imbued with sentience. > The human beings have sentience plus intellect. > Therefore the human being , because of the presence > of intellect, wants to ask questions. > > By the same token , it is intellect which makes him > miserable. The animal, when there is a sense of > impending danger, is at once alert. But when the > danger is gone the animal relaxes. In the human being, > under those circumstances, the intellect makes him > look forward. He says, "What do I do if something > happens? What do I do if this doesn't happen?" > > So intellect is what brings about the sense of fear, > because it is intellect which wants security. It is intellect > which rejects change and wants security. In the case of > the animal, because the kind of thinking mind is not there, > it's not bothered about security. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Consciousness Speaks > Ramesh Balsekar > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 On 6/24/01 at 9:22 PM COMO KASHA wrote: ºSome animals that I have experienced have both intellect and fear. ºWhat is the view of others here. º ºLove, ºAlton One might wonder about the intellect of lizards but they certainly can display a behavior, typical for fear... As do all prey-animals and that includes humans. The less able to defend oneself, the more fearful and aggressive - intellect by itself is irrelevant as it is "overruled" by instinct, unless instinct is "replaced" with " " and " " is freedom from the "need" to defend too. Intelligent behavior includes evading impending damage on the body and here, fear even can be counter-productive, like in my case yesterday, when a car-driver, confused by the new "horror" motorway, took a wrong turn and instantly became a racing ghost-driver heading "my" way on the "overtake" track. The other drivers froze and nearly made accidents, I had a good laugh, as with the scooter, evading was easy So I disagree with Balsekar too. Joy and Light, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 Although I agree it doesn't really amount to "higher" or "lower," there seems to be a generalized qualitative difference between humans and other mammals regarding mentation style and what is feared -- it is said that only the human foresees and fears his/her own death, and that seems to be particular mental capability(?) that has profound emotional and spiritual consequences. On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:31:55 -0000 "Omkara" <coresite writes: > > i'm not sure about other animal species, but certainly all the > mammalian species (mammals) seem to be capable of love and affection > - > - which is based on the sense of touch, and the fact that mammals > nurse their young and other related things. > > Fear is a certainty... i don't know about "intellect," depends on > the definition. > > The idea that Homo Sapiens (mankind) is a "higher" species is > incredibly egotistical imo, and is partly responsible for the > current > decimation of the planet (along with that much-touted "intellect"). > > Namaste, > > Omkara > > , "COMO KASHA" <lostnfoundation> > wrote: > > Some animals that I have experienced have both intellect and fear. > > > What is the view of others here. > http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 Hi: Bruce. We used to collect cow manure in the Naalehu dairy fields and when of of the cows died, the rest would wail and make a sound like they were bereaved or frightened. OK: they may not be able to use language like we do, but they sure can communicate with each other through their own language and even identify them selves and other objects on a tv screen. I site dolphen studies. That is why a heavy conflict exists with myself in having to eat flesh to survive. Love, Alton , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > There might be some terminology > confusion here. Animals are > sometime quite agile mentally, > but an intellect to me implies > language and formal reasoning. > Likewise animals fear as an > aspect of survival instinct -- > it seems as if they fear pain > and loss, but only humans seem > to fear personal extinction, > their own mortality. Animals > don't seem to connect the fact > of physical death with > themselves, even when they lose > a human or animal companion > they don't seem to connect that > with themselves. Of course > since we don't have a concise > language in common with animals > a good deal of the above is > unscientific speculation based > on observed behaviors. > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:22:19 -0000 "COMO KASHA" > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > Some animals that I have experienced have both intellect and fear. > > What is the view of others here. > > > > Love, > > Alton > > > > > > "Viorica Weissman" <viorica@z...> > > Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:11 am > > intellect wants security > > > > > > > > Why do I experience so much fear and anxiety? > > > > Human beings assume that basically, essentially, they > > are different from other objects. But they are different > > only in the sense that human beings , like animals and > > insects , have been additionally imbued with sentience. > > The human beings have sentience plus intellect. > > Therefore the human being , because of the presence > > of intellect, wants to ask questions. > > > > By the same token , it is intellect which makes him > > miserable. The animal, when there is a sense of > > impending danger, is at once alert. But when the > > danger is gone the animal relaxes. In the human being, > > under those circumstances, the intellect makes him > > look forward. He says, "What do I do if something > > happens? What do I do if this doesn't happen?" > > > > So intellect is what brings about the sense of fear, > > because it is intellect which wants security. It is intellect > > which rejects change and wants security. In the case of > > the animal, because the kind of thinking mind is not there, > > it's not bothered about security. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Consciousness Speaks > > Ramesh Balsekar > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > http://come.to/realization > http://www.atman.net/realization > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm > ______________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Hi: Vickie: You must have posted it here or the link or I would not have seen it. I am glad I brought up the issues as I got some clarification from others here. Love, Alton My wife and I saw Balsekar in Maui a number of years ago. He is a lovely man with the best intellectual understanding, but we did not get connected to him, like I do with Ramana and Nisaragadatta. , "Viorica Weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > hi Alton , > > I wouldn't worry about agreements or disagreements. > Usually what is false falls by itself; > I don't take anybody's words literally either , > and I don't take the first meaning that my mind interprets > when reading something too seriously. > It is subject to change. > > but I have a question , I posted this on ANetofJewels, > which is a list dedicated to Ramesh ; > have I posted this quote on too > and I forgot about it ? > > vicki > > > > -- In , "COMO KASHA" <lostnfoundation> wrote: > > Some animals that I have experienced have both intellect and fear. > > What is the view of others here. > > > > Love, > > Alton > > > > > > "Viorica Weissman" <viorica@z...> > > Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:11 am > > intellect wants security > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 , "COMO KASHA" <lostnfoundation> wrote: > Some animals that I have experienced have both intellect and fear. > What is the view of others here. > > So intellect is what brings about the sense of fear, > because it is intellect which wants security. It is intellect > which rejects change and wants security. In the case of > the animal, because the kind of thinking mind is not there, > it's not bothered about security. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Consciousness Speaks > Ramesh Balsekar > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Namaste All, Rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????!!!!!1 Ahhhhhh!!!!poor Balsekar, I knew him well!!!!! Ramesh unmasked, or mistranslated/misquoted?. Next time I see an animal quivering in fear, I will quote Vndism to it and say it is an illusion of an illusion, you're actually cold. Your vijnanmayakosa isn't developed enough yet,it is still in potentiality. Next time I see a bird building a nest or a mouse, or a dog looking for a warm place in a house, well what can I say? What an eye opener what a disappointment, you mean Ramesh isn't a Jivanmukti. As I have said so often, there are only a handful on the planet, most unsung and not heard of......ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Hi Vicki: If you cant find it then the link was from someone else and when I went there I saw your post. Since I never miss any of your posts I clicked it and thats how I found it. Thanks for your Ramana posts. There great. Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 , "Viorica Weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > Tony Tony Tony , > > please relax , > take it easy , > the planet is still spinning around its ax ... > > vicki > > > > Namaste All, Rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????!!!!!1 > > > > Ahhhhhh!!!!.....ONS...Tony. Namaste Victoria, I'm relaxed very!! I've been laughing my arse off all morning, thinking about the ridiculousness of all this..It Ramesh said it well, all I can say is that, it is part and parcel of the humourous leela and a lesson to some.hahahahahahaah..Still amused by it...ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 On 6/25/01 at 3:30 PM Tony O'Clery wrote: [...] ºNext time I see a bird building a nest or a mouse, or a dog looking ºfor a warm place in a house, well what can I say? That even reptiles can appreciate a caress - see the attached picture that says more than words can convey Attachment: (image/jpeg) M&Ls.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Tony O'Clery wrote: > , "Viorica Weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > > Tony Tony Tony , > > > > please relax , > > take it easy , > > the planet is still spinning around its ax ... > > > > vicki > > > > > > > Namaste All, Rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????!!!!!1 > > > > > > Ahhhhhh!!!!.....ONS...Tony. > > Namaste Victoria, > > I'm relaxed very!! I've been laughing my arse off all morning, > thinking about the ridiculousness of all this..It Ramesh said it well, > > all I can say is that, it is part and parcel of the humourous leela > and a lesson to some.hahahahahahaah..Still amused by it...ONS..Tony. > Dear Tony: Thanks so much for the entertainment the last few days. You have really en-light-ened me........... Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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