Guest guest Posted June 26, 2001 Report Share Posted June 26, 2001 Hi Jan, , "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: > A description, pointing at the fact that physical, mental and > spiritual maturity once coincided. Only possible when childhood > conditioning doesn't exceed the "auto repair" function. Spiritual > maturity equals 'realization' and this means 'happiness'. As goes > for most mammals, when happy, that is the 'hard wired conditioning' > for procreation, whether conscious of it or not - seemingly > multiply happiness - hence, no (more) celibacy issue... Of course > this gives another perspective on cases of perceived 'abuse' too... What is the 'meaning' when there is no desire for procreation? As 'here'... there is no desire for it at all -- other than a once or twice weekly "manual pressure relief" to prevent physical problems, there is no desire here to go seeking out a mate. Does this indicate to you "something abnormal?" There is no aversion to sex, just no desire to "have it." Nor is there a desire for a lifelong companion of the "opposite sex." It seems most, if not all desires have died along with whatever mechanism keeps the cycle of desiring in motion. > Life would be weird indeed if 'realization' would require > seclusion, life-long celibacy, practices of detachment Certainly true, yet no guarantee that "realization" will not in fact "lead to" disinterest in "the world" and an overall unattachment. There is nothing to do, nowhere to go and nothing to seek. Understanding this more than just mentally, desires "go up in smoke." > Why 'just' be satisfied with 'products' of Love when there is Love > itself? There is what there is... and it depends on the definition of "Love." If you mean the "unconditional variety," it still depends on a sense of duality... lover and Beloved remaining separated. If no longer separated, then Love is inseparable from "Being" and there are no 'others' to seek out. Joy & Happiness, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2001 Report Share Posted June 26, 2001 On 6/27/01 at 12:11 AM Omkara wrote: ºHi Jan, º º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: º> A description, pointing at the fact that physical, mental and º> spiritual maturity once coincided. Only possible when childhood º> conditioning doesn't exceed the "auto repair" function. Spiritual º> maturity equals 'realization' and this means 'happiness'. As goes º> for most mammals, when happy, that is the 'hard wired conditioning' º> for procreation, whether conscious of it or not - seemingly º> multiply happiness - hence, no (more) celibacy issue... Of course º> this gives another perspective on cases of perceived 'abuse' too... º ºWhat is the 'meaning' when there is no desire for procreation? ºAs 'here'... there is no desire for it at all -- other than a once or ºtwice weekly "manual pressure relief" to prevent physical problems, ºthere is no desire here to go seeking out a mate. Regarding breathing, one might ask if there is a desire to do so - the mind-body has sensors that will determine a requirement for breath. Regarding other functions, very much the same. What is hardly known, is that a requirement for celibacy is love, whether fulfilled (tantra) or scorned (like happens in Sufi stories). Self-realization (*knowledge* of 'who I am') can fulfill that too... Easily to be observed from for instance Ramana's biography. º ºDoes this indicate to you "something abnormal?" There is no aversion ºto sex, just no desire to "have it." Nor is there a desire for a ºlifelong companion of the "opposite sex." It seems most, if not all ºdesires have died along with whatever mechanism keeps the cycle of ºdesiring in motion. No, aversion also is a desire... And there can't be a desire for a companion - only a response could be noticed but a desire would indicate daydreaming and imagination... º º> Life would be weird indeed if 'realization' would require º> seclusion, life-long celibacy, practices of detachment º ºCertainly true, yet no guarantee that "realization" will not in ºfact "lead to" disinterest in "the world" and an overall ºunattachment. There is nothing to do, nowhere to go and nothing to ºseek. Understanding this more than just mentally, desires "go up in ºsmoke." One of the marvels (no pun) of 'ego' is that it can veil anything to such a degree as if to seem non-existent. "Realization" will only unveil the "real" human who then, cannot veil responsiveness anymore. So 'what next' essentially is unpredictable. º º> Why 'just' be satisfied with 'products' of Love when there is Love º> itself? º ºThere is what there is... and it depends on the definition ºof "Love." If you mean the "unconditional variety," it still depends ºon a sense of duality... lover and Beloved remaining separated. If ºno longer separated, then Love is inseparable from "Being" and there ºare no 'others' to seek out. One of the marvels of Love is that it doesn't require any definition ) And it is "experienced" by anyone, engaged with 'personally' - without even mentioning it. What differs, is how that is interpreted... Love, Jan º ºJoy & Happiness, º ºTim º º º/join º º º º º ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and ºsubside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not ºdifferent than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the ºnature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. ºIt is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the ºFinality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of ºSelf-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome ºall to a. º º º ºYour use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2001 Report Share Posted June 26, 2001 Does this indicate to you "something abnormal?" There is no aversion to sex, just no desire to "have it." Nor is there a desire for a lifelong companion of the "opposite sex." It seems most, if not all desires have died along with whatever mechanism keeps the cycle of desiring in motion. > Life would be weird indeed if 'realization' would require > seclusion, life-long celibacy, practices of detachmentCertainly true, yet no guarantee that "realization" will not in fact "lead to" disinterest in "the world" and an overall unattachment. There is nothing to do, nowhere to go and nothing to seek. Understanding this more than just mentally, desires "go up in smoke."> Why 'just' be satisfied with 'products' of Love when there is Love > itself?There is what there is... and it depends on the definition of "Love." If you mean the "unconditional variety," it still depends on a sense of duality... lover and Beloved remaining separated. If no longer separated, then Love is inseparable from "Being" and there are no 'others' to seek out.Joy & Happiness,Tim Dear Tim, Oh dear, not sure quite how you mean that unconditional love depends on duality, would you kindly elaborate? I have never forgotten the way sweet old Dan explained this Lover & Beloved so simply. Its not a choice between being two OR one, but that two IS one. (and not one, either.. don't you love these paradoxes? :) Because those two are not some identical blob of sameness. Dan said this more poetically, of course. Besides which, when there are no 'others', is a perpective which still allows for an awareness of others, no need to lose interest. Tho likely the seeking aspect would fall away, as you mentioned. It is quite remarkable how Ramana could see and respond to people so differently, precisely 'as needed', of course. That understanding extended to animals as well. You would love these stories about monkeys, dogs, and cows with Ramana. I'll have to type some up. ....let's talk about love, Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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