Guest guest Posted June 29, 2001 Report Share Posted June 29, 2001 Glo, I will not say you are dead wrong about the sound, because I know you as a wonderfully, giving, compassonate and loving being of light. Let me give you the elements of the light and sound path in hopes of changing your mind' After you agree to not eat flesh or eggs and do 2 or more hours of meditation per day, the master gives you the Light and Sound during initiation and a mantra, which is five charged words. The names of the governors of the five spiritual planes. Astral, Causal etc. When concentration and love for the Master is developed, the third eye opens and you have an out of the body journey. What you see is more real or at least as real as you see it here on this earth. If you see the moon and penetrate it and have the requisite love for the master, the master will tell you to catch the sound current and that draws you up. The light shows you the way and the sound draws you up. Eventually when your mind is purified of sensual desires, you reach the absolute state. When you get the higher sounds and listen to it all day and night your mind is quelled. Its just another path like loving Christ or Yogananda. All paths if earnestly practices will take you back to the source. http://www.m-w.com/ Online dictionary link Main Entry: 1lust Pronunciation: 'l&st Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German lust pleasure and perhaps to Latin lascivus wanton before 12th century 1 obsolete a : PLEASURE, DELIGHT b : personal inclination : WISH 2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : LASCIVIOUSNESS 3 a : an intense longing : CRAVING b : ENTHUSIASM, EAGERNESS Glo wrote: Knowing that you have read widely in spiritual literature, may I ask how this is any different than lusting after siddhas? You know that occult type powers, like clairvoyance, etc, may simply happen spontaneously.Either way, most all the classic literature of recognized ones like Ramana cautions against paying much attention to such manifestations. So what are you really asking for? What will hearing this sound or any sound really do for you, Alton? Everything I do and most other people I know fit at least the first and third definition of Lust. All three apply to me. Did not I read in "Talks". that Ramana did not say not to practice the sound meditation when he was asked about it? Nisargadatta has said the it is the sound of our beingness, and you can get drunk on it. He also said it is false and so is the "I Am" So when you are puting your attention on the "I am" without words what objects appear. The sound of our beingness and sensations. Love and thanks for your patience in explaning tech stuff to me via emails. Alton Alton Omkara, I will answer you later as I have to take a nap and then swim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2001 Report Share Posted June 29, 2001 Alton is describing a sat guru bhakti path known as "Sant Mat" or "Surat Shabd Yoga." I am acquainted with one teacher in that tradition who I consider authentic and trustworthy, and another who I see as very thoroughly deluded. Because the actual practice involves emphasis on the "third eye" chakra, the honesty and competence of instruction is imo crucial. That said, if one is naturally inclined toward devotion, I would certainly not dismiss this path out of hand -- it's not my personal cup of tea, but I'm no bhakta! Alton's open-mindedness concerning other approaches indicates to me that he is receiving good guidance in his practice, and I welcome his testimony. All formal practice has an element of what might be described as "lust" or ambition -- if we didn't *want* something to change, it's doubtful we would embark on such a path in the first place. Sant Mat has its pitfalls in this respect, but probably no more of them than most other formal approaches. On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:11:11 -0000 "ALTON ALTON" <lostnfoundation writes: > Glo, I will not say you are dead wrong about the sound, because I > know you as a wonderfully, giving, compassonate and loving being of > > light. > > Let me give you the elements of the light and sound path in hopes of > changing your mind' > > After you agree to not eat flesh or eggs and do 2 or more hours of > meditation per day, the master gives you the Light and Sound during > initiation and a mantra, which is five charged words. The names of > the governors of the five spiritual planes. Astral, Causal etc. > > When concentration and love for the Master is developed, the third > eye opens and you have an out of the body journey. What you see is > more real or at least as real as you see it here on this earth. If > you see the moon and penetrate it and have the requisite love for > the > master, the master will tell you to catch the sound current and that > draws you up. The light shows you the way and the sound draws you up. > > Eventually when your mind is purified of sensual desires, you reach > the absolute state. When you get the higher sounds and listen to it > all day and night your mind is quelled. Its just another path like > loving Christ or Yogananda. All paths if earnestly practices will > take you back to the source. > > http://www.m-w.com/ Online dictionary link > Main Entry: 1lust > Pronunciation: 'l&st > Function: noun > Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German > > lust pleasure and perhaps to Latin lascivus wanton > before 12th century > 1 obsolete a : PLEASURE, DELIGHT b : personal inclination : WISH > 2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : LASCIVIOUSNESS > 3 a : an intense longing : CRAVING b : ENTHUSIASM, EAGERNESS > > Glo wrote: > Knowing that you have read widely in spiritual literature, may I ask > how this is any different than lusting after siddhas? You know that > occult type powers, like clairvoyance, etc, may simply happen > spontaneously.Either way, most all the classic literature of > recognized ones like Ramana cautions against paying much attention > to such manifestations. So what are you really asking for? What will > hearing this sound or any sound really do for you, Alton? > > Everything I do and most other people I know fit at least the first > and third definition of Lust. > All three apply to me. > > Did not I read in "Talks". that Ramana did not say not to practice > the sound meditation when he was asked about it? Nisargadatta has > said the it is the sound of our beingness, and you can get drunk on > > it. He also said it is false and so is the "I Am" So when you are > puting your attention on the "I am" without words what objects > appear. The sound of our beingness and sensations. > > Love and thanks for your patience in explaning tech stuff to me via > > emails. > > > Alton Alton > > Omkara, I will answer you later as I have to take a nap and then > swim. > http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 HI Bruce: Thanks for you insightful post. Which Sat Mat Master do you think is authentic and trustworthy? Actually they all have powers or they could not give light and maybe put their radient image on their inititates. They all seem to have PUKAS in their personage, but dont we all. I just reacted stongly to their teachings so here I am joyful. Love, Alton , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > Alton is describing a sat > guru bhakti path known as > "Sant Mat" or "Surat Shabd > Yoga." I am acquainted > with one teacher in that > tradition who I consider > authentic and trustworthy, > and another who I see as > very thoroughly deluded. > > Because the actual > practice involves emphasis > on the "third eye" chakra, > the honesty and competence > of instruction is imo > crucial. That said, if > one is naturally inclined > toward devotion, I would > certainly not dismiss this > path out of hand -- it's > not my personal cup of > tea, but I'm no bhakta! > > Alton's open-mindedness > concerning other approaches > indicates to me that he is > receiving good guidance in > his practice, and I welcome > his testimony. All formal > practice has an element of > what might be described as > "lust" or ambition -- if we > didn't *want* something to > change, it's doubtful we > would embark on such a path > in the first place. Sant > Mat has its pitfalls in > this respect, but probably > no more of them than most > other formal approaches. > > > On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:11:11 -0000 "ALTON ALTON" > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > Glo, I will not say you are dead wrong about the sound, because I > > know you as a wonderfully, giving, compassonate and loving being of > > > > light. > > > > Let me give you the elements of the light and sound path in hopes of > > changing your mind' > > > > After you agree to not eat flesh or eggs and do 2 or more hours of > > meditation per day, the master gives you the Light and Sound during > > initiation and a mantra, which is five charged words. The names of > > the governors of the five spiritual planes. Astral, Causal etc. > > > > When concentration and love for the Master is developed, the third > > eye opens and you have an out of the body journey. What you see is > > more real or at least as real as you see it here on this earth. If > > you see the moon and penetrate it and have the requisite love for > > the > > master, the master will tell you to catch the sound current and that > > draws you up. The light shows you the way and the sound draws you up. > > > > Eventually when your mind is purified of sensual desires, you reach > > the absolute state. When you get the higher sounds and listen to it > > all day and night your mind is quelled. Its just another path like > > loving Christ or Yogananda. All paths if earnestly practices will > > take you back to the source. > > > > http://www.m-w.com/ Online dictionary link > > Main Entry: 1lust > > Pronunciation: 'l&st > > Function: noun > > Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German > > > > lust pleasure and perhaps to Latin lascivus wanton > > before 12th century > > 1 obsolete a : PLEASURE, DELIGHT b : personal inclination : WISH > > 2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : LASCIVIOUSNESS > > 3 a : an intense longing : CRAVING b : ENTHUSIASM, EAGERNESS > > > > Glo wrote: > > Knowing that you have read widely in spiritual literature, may I ask > > how this is any different than lusting after siddhas? You know that > > occult type powers, like clairvoyance, etc, may simply happen > > spontaneously.Either way, most all the classic literature of > > recognized ones like Ramana cautions against paying much attention > > to such manifestations. So what are you really asking for? What will > > hearing this sound or any sound really do for you, Alton? > > > > Everything I do and most other people I know fit at least the first > > and third definition of Lust. > > All three apply to me. > > > > Did not I read in "Talks". that Ramana did not say not to practice > > the sound meditation when he was asked about it? Nisargadatta has > > said the it is the sound of our beingness, and you can get drunk on > > > > it. He also said it is false and so is the "I Am" So when you are > > puting your attention on the "I am" without words what objects > > appear. The sound of our beingness and sensations. > > > > Love and thanks for your patience in explaning tech stuff to me via > > > > emails. > > > > > > Alton Alton > > > > Omkara, I will answer you later as I have to take a nap and then > > swim. > > > > http://come.to/realization > http://www.atman.net/realization > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm > ______________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:50:57 -0000 "ALTON ALTON" <lostnfoundation writes: > > HI Bruce: > Thanks for your insightful post. You're more than welcome. > Which Sat Mat Master do you think is authentic and trustworthy? I don't think we should get into names. Since you've apparently taken initiation, I'm assuming you're not actually looking for a master personally, correct? There is *so* much inter- guru competition in the Sant Mat world I'm not sure I should opine here, since I'm not an initiate myself and my contacts with the two people I mentioned amount to mere acquaintance. > Actually they all have powers or they could not give light and maybe > put their radient image on their inititates. They all seem to have > PUKAS in their personage, but dont we all. Yes, but that's not what's really at issue in authenticity and trustworthiness. > > I just reacted strongly to their teachings so here I am joyful. I rejoice with you. May your guruji guide you home. > > Love, > Alton Baba nam kevalam Bruce > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > Alton is describing a sat > > guru bhakti path known as > > "Sant Mat" or "Surat Shabd > > Yoga." I am acquainted > > with one teacher in that > > tradition who I consider > > authentic and trustworthy, > > and another who I see as > > very thoroughly deluded. > > > > Because the actual > > practice involves emphasis > > on the "third eye" chakra, > > the honesty and competence > > of instruction is imo > > crucial. That said, if > > one is naturally inclined > > toward devotion, I would > > certainly not dismiss this > > path out of hand -- it's > > not my personal cup of > > tea, but I'm no bhakta! > > > > Alton's open-mindedness > > concerning other approaches > > indicates to me that he is > > receiving good guidance in > > his practice, and I welcome > > his testimony. All formal > > practice has an element of > > what might be described as > > "lust" or ambition -- if we > > didn't *want* something to > > change, it's doubtful we > > would embark on such a path > > in the first place. Sant > > Mat has its pitfalls in > > this respect, but probably > > no more of them than most > > other formal approaches. > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:11:11 -0000 "ALTON ALTON" > > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > > Glo, I will not say you are dead wrong about the sound, because > > I > > > know you as a wonderfully, giving, compassonate and loving being > > of > > > > > > light. > > > > > > Let me give you the elements of the light and sound path in > hopes > of > > > changing your mind' > > > > > > After you agree to not eat flesh or eggs and do 2 or more hours > > of > > > meditation per day, the master gives you the Light and Sound > during > > > initiation and a mantra, which is five charged words. The names > > of > > > the governors of the five spiritual planes. Astral, Causal etc. > > > > > > When concentration and love for the Master is developed, the > third > > > eye opens and you have an out of the body journey. What you see > > is > > > more real or at least as real as you see it here on this earth. > > If > > > you see the moon and penetrate it and have the requisite love > for > > > the > > > master, the master will tell you to catch the sound current and > > that > > > draws you up. The light shows you the way and the sound draws > you > up. > > > > > > Eventually when your mind is purified of sensual desires, you > reach > > > the absolute state. When you get the higher sounds and listen to > > it > > > all day and night your mind is quelled. Its just another path > like > > > loving Christ or Yogananda. All paths if earnestly practices > will > > > take you back to the source. > > > > > > http://www.m-w.com/ Online dictionary link > > > Main Entry: 1lust > > > Pronunciation: 'l&st > > > Function: noun > > > Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High > German > > > > > > lust pleasure and perhaps to Latin lascivus wanton > > > before 12th century > > > 1 obsolete a : PLEASURE, DELIGHT b : personal inclination : > WISH > > > 2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : LASCIVIOUSNESS > > > 3 a : an intense longing : CRAVING b : ENTHUSIASM, EAGERNESS > > > > > > Glo wrote: > > > Knowing that you have read widely in spiritual literature, may I > > ask > > > how this is any different than lusting after siddhas? You know > that > > > occult type powers, like clairvoyance, etc, may simply happen > > > spontaneously.Either way, most all the classic literature of > > > recognized ones like Ramana cautions against paying much > attention > > > to such manifestations. So what are you really asking for? What > > will > > > hearing this sound or any sound really do for you, Alton? > > > > > > Everything I do and most other people I know fit at least the > first > > > and third definition of Lust. > > > All three apply to me. > > > > > > Did not I read in "Talks". that Ramana did not say not to > practice > > > the sound meditation when he was asked about it? Nisargadatta > has > > > said the it is the sound of our beingness, and you can get drunk > > on > > > > > > it. He also said it is false and so is the "I Am" So when you > > > are > > > puting your attention on the "I am" without words what objects > > > appear. The sound of our beingness and sensations. > > > > > > Love and thanks for your patience in explaning tech stuff to me > > > via emails. > > > > > > > > > Alton Alton > > > > > > Omkara, I will answer you later as I have to take a nap and then > > > swim. > > > http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 - ALTON ALTON Friday, June 29, 2001 9:11 PM Glo; about the Sound Current Glo, I will not say you are dead wrong about the sound, because I know you as a wonderfully, giving, compassonate and loving being of light. Dear Alton, Oh yes, all of that and uh, stupid too! LOL! Really Alton, you can even say I am dead wrong. All my very best friends have that privilege. It's because I consider you such a friend that I spoke up so freely to ask whatever were you up to with this sound business. Now for real bluntness, you must be family. Anyway, I am truly sorry if my questioning gave the impression of any lack of respect for you or your experiences, Alton. I will try to be more clear that the lack of clarity about what you mean is due to my ignorance of this Sant Mat path. In this case, I see now that I have misunderstood and confused means with ends. If this way of meditation serves you as a path, fine. Not to worry, in the end we all come to see the same one and only reality, how could it be otherwise? Love you, Gloria PS Oh, and when you threw in this Satan red herring bit, were you not being deliberately provacative? It's hard to tell how much you mean what you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Gloria: No need to recriminate yourself. I have so much love for the people here including Tony that I cant keep away from it. I only got 2 hours of meditation so far, which is not what I said I would do to go online here. I only hope that Michael comes back here. I want to apololgize for invading his space by offering help. What he was able to accomplish by getting off him medicine has me in awe as I know what one can go through as I went through terrific withdrawals for a year or more when I got off antihistamines. Michael if you would just have communicated that you only wanted folks to listen to you and not give you advice, you would not have to react like you did and exit. Please come back. Glo wrote: PS Oh, and when you threw in this Satan red herring bit, were you not being deliberately provacative? It's hard to tell how much you mean what you say Hey, I am just my astrological chart. I have Mars in Libra in the eleventh house. They say that is disruptive in group. Tony must have Mar and Pluto conjunct in the eleventh house or something equal to that. I think Tony is very valuable here. He is not a rubber stamp.' I told you someone threatened to kill me on another board. I just like stirring thing up. Its interesting. However I dont want to hurt anyone. Aloha, Alton , "Gloria Lee" <glee@i...> wrote: > > - > ALTON ALTON > > Friday, June 29, 2001 9:11 PM > Glo; about the Sound Current > > > Glo, I will not say you are dead wrong about the sound, because I > know you as a wonderfully, giving, compassonate and loving being of > light. > > Dear Alton, > > Oh yes, all of that and uh, stupid too! LOL! Really Alton, you can even say I am dead wrong. All my very best friends have that privilege. It's because I consider you such a friend that I spoke up so freely to ask whatever were you up to with this sound business. Now for real bluntness, you must be family. Anyway, I am truly sorry if my questioning gave the impression of any lack of respect for you or your experiences, Alton. I will try to be more clear that the lack of clarity about what you mean is due to my ignorance of this Sant Mat path. > > In this case, I see now that I have misunderstood and confused means with ends. If this way of meditation serves you as a path, fine. Not to worry, in the end we all come to see the same one and only reality, how could it be otherwise? > > Love you, > Gloria > > PS Oh, and when you threw in this Satan red herring bit, were you not being deliberately provacative? It's hard to tell how much you mean what you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Viorica Weissman <viorica > as a member of this list I would like to say > that I don't like stirring thing up and that > it is not interesting , > it is hurting and provocative , > and unnecessary , Stirring up sure is hurting and provocative. You got that right. Some people do it privately though, to avoid being thought of in such a way. At least Alton does it out in public!! You like quotations viorica. Ever heard the one 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'? Allspirit Website: http://www.allspirit.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:41:29 +0100 "Gill Eardley" <gill writes: > > Viorica Weissman <viorica > > > as a member of this list I would like to say > > that I don't like stirring thing up and that > > it is not interesting , > > it is hurting and provocative , > > and unnecessary , > > Stirring up sure is hurting and provocative. > You got that right. Some people do it privately > though, to avoid being thought of in such a way. > At least Alton does it out in public!! > > You like quotations viorica. Ever heard the one > 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'? > Please notice, friends: the way things seem to be going we will lose both Alton and Vicki, but we'll still have Tony. This announcement is brought to you by Karma, that pesky cause and effect tendency with the ironic sense of humor -- from the makers of the Star Wars[r] soft drink with that touch of oddly-worded extraterrestrial wisdom: that's right, it's YODA SODA! :-) Much love to all, leaving or otherwise -- Bruce http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 That's good to "hear," Vicki. It would be a loss if you left, likewise if Alton left. You each express love very differently, but it is surely the very same love. The Sage of Arunchala inspires great devotion and determination, and that energy blesses and enlivens Harsha's endeavor, as does your participation. On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:28:52 -0000 "Viorica Weissman" <viorica writes: > > > Hi Bruce , > > I shall never ever leave a list > whose owner is a Ramana Maharshi's devotee. > > NEVER. > Unless he wants me to. > > Vicki > > > Please notice, friends: the > > way things seem to be going > > we will lose both Alton and > > Vicki, but we'll still have > > Tony. This announcement is > > brought to you by Karma, > > that pesky cause and effect > > tendency with the ironic > > sense of humor -- from the > > makers of the Star Wars[r] > > soft drink with that touch of > > oddly-worded extraterrestrial > > wisdom: that's right, it's > > YODA SODA! :-) > > > > Much love to all, leaving > > or otherwise -- Bruce > > http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Please notice, friends: the way things seem to be going we will lose both Alton and Vicki, but we'll still have Tony. This announcement is brought to you by Karma, that pesky cause and effect tendency with the ironic sense of humor -- from the makers of the Star Wars[r] soft drink with that touch of oddly-worded extraterrestrial wisdom: that's right, it's YODA SODA! :-)Much love to all, leaving or otherwise -- Bruce Thanks for the wisdom, Bruce, terrestrial or extra. They say love covers a multitude of sins, and so does humor! Mistakes, stepping on toes, unintended consequences are all par for the course in human communication. So we may as well take them lightly as we can. Harsha is the only one entitled to say "My way or the highway" and we might all take notice how seldom he does so. This list is an opportunity for us to learn of many perspectives, those with differing preferences, etc. Controversial topics CAN be discussed in a civilized way, and that is all that is asked here. Ideas are not off limits to questioning or even criticism, however provacative. Geesh, I was teasing Alton about the Satan remark he made. Love, Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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