Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Both Nisargadatta and Ramana don't meet my standards of who to worship. I cannot worship beings that get angry. Nisargadatta in my option got angry. Ramana appeared to do so when he criticized that person who was meditating long hours in the sun. I do worship their words though. How dare Ramana to set time limits on how much someone can meditate, and attempting to use scare tactics by saying one could go mad.. You mean he would say for example, you can meditate 3 1/2 hour but if you do it 4 hours you could go crazy. If I was more gifted I would not have to meditate that much. Itzak Perlman the violin virtuoso who had the whole literature memorized at I think 13 said that one should only practice their instument 2 or three hours per day. Yah Itzak if I had your musical ability I could do that too. I have to put in 100,000 hours of piano practice to equal 100 hours of someone who is gifted. Similarly I have to put in 10,000 hours to equal a gifted meditator who only puts in 50 hours. Who is he to tell anyone how much to practice being that he came in with prodigious mental gifts. Ghandi seems to be the only person that I could worship. Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 On 6/30/01 at 8:30 PM lostnfoundation wrote: ºBoth Nisargadatta and Ramana don't meet my standards of who to ºworship. ºI cannot worship beings that get angry. Nisargadatta in my option got ºangry. Ramana appeared to do so when he criticized that person who ºwas meditating long hours in the sun. ºI do worship their words though. [...] In order to worship, there has to be faith - or complete surrender. Anger is just a mode of expression when everything else (even Silence) has no direct effect - when there is faith, that is the knowledge, "the operator behind the scene" is always Love - when there is surrender, pain is felt, is accepted without mental activity and that "dissolves" the conditioning that causes the pain... Faith is timeless and so is surrender - both will cause a major shift in perception, thinking and behavior. When that is impossible, there come the practices in order to "prepare the ground".. Joy and Light, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Dear lostnfoundation, glad you found me. Hehehe... You wrote: > Both Nisargadatta and Ramana don't meet my standards of who to > worship. > I cannot worship beings that get angry. Nisargadatta in my option got > angry. Ramana appeared to do so when he criticized that person who > was meditating long hours in the sun. You may have to worship me then, I have not been angry in five years for sure... and before that I don't remember I ever was, also I do not need to anticipate I'll ever be. About the worshipping part I'm not serious of course, about the anger... ye I am. It is indeed possible and our birthright not to be angered... It is really nothing special... And... although I am humourous in this, I'm not joking. Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Dear Jan: I have faith in their words, that's why I am here. Love, Alton , "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: > On 6/30/01 at 8:30 PM lostnfoundation wrote: > > ºBoth Nisargadatta and Ramana don't meet my standards of who to > ºworship. > ºI cannot worship beings that get angry. Nisargadatta in my option got > ºangry. Ramana appeared to do so when he criticized that person who > ºwas meditating long hours in the sun. > ºI do worship their words though. > [...] > > In order to worship, there has to be faith - or complete surrender. > Anger is just a mode of expression when everything else (even Silence) > has no direct effect - when there is faith, that is the knowledge, "the > operator behind the scene" is always Love - when there is surrender, > pain is felt, is accepted without mental activity and that "dissolves" > the conditioning that causes the pain... Faith is timeless and so is > surrender - both will cause a major shift in perception, thinking > and behavior. When that is impossible, there come the practices in order > to "prepare the ground".. > > Joy and Light, > Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Dear Jeremy: I made that statement from the information I had about Ghandi but I would have to delve more completely and know him personally. I said I could but not would. OK, I will just worship words. I hope I never say, "words words I'm sick of words" The rain in Spain stays mainly on the Plain" I think you've got it. Love, Alton , "Jeremy Frost" <frost@t...> wrote: > > - > <lostnfoundation> > > Saturday, June 30, 2001 1:30 PM > Worship > > > Ghandi seems to be the only person that I could worship. > > > > > > > > Love, > > Alton > > Ghandi wasn't what I'd call an enlightened person by any stretch of the > imagination. He is often deified by people who do not know the entire story > of his life etc. but he is not deserving of worship in my opinion. His > betrayal of the Sikhs shows that he was indeed human and while his > intentions may have been pure to start, he had failings just like everyone > else. Don't decide on whom to worship by the sole fact of whether they get > angry or not. To be human is to get angry & impatient at times, there is no > getting around it. I, personally, wouldn't worship a human as I have found > that no matter what the title, we all put our pants on one leg at a time and > one is bound to be disappointed by using this strategy..but again this is > solely my own opinion. > > > Kind Regards, > Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 On 6/30/01 at 11:31 PM ALTON A ALTON wrote: ºDear Jan: ºI have faith in their words, that's why I am here. ºLove, ºAlton Sorry but I fail to see that as a valid reason: there are many books filled with all their recorded words and all are available. And mere words never convince(d) me, too often having observed the phenomenon "thinking A, saying B but doing C". Regarding this, C.G. Jung once remarked that though he could see Ramana as the whitest spot in India, he failed to understand why "highest truth" had to coincide with an utterly neglected body (body is Self too...) So despite having the opportunity to visit Ramana, he didn't... Love, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 - <lostnfoundation <> Saturday, June 30, 2001 1:30 PM Worship > Ghandi seems to be the only person that I could worship. > > > > Love, > Alton Ghandi wasn't what I'd call an enlightened person by any stretch of the imagination. He is often deified by people who do not know the entire story of his life etc. but he is not deserving of worship in my opinion. His betrayal of the Sikhs shows that he was indeed human and while his intentions may have been pure to start, he had failings just like everyone else. Don't decide on whom to worship by the sole fact of whether they get angry or not. To be human is to get angry & impatient at times, there is no getting around it. I, personally, wouldn't worship a human as I have found that no matter what the title, we all put our pants on one leg at a time and one is bound to be disappointed by using this strategy..but again this is solely my own opinion. Kind Regards, Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 , "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: > On 6/30/01 at 11:31 PM ALTON A ALTON wrote: > > ºDear Jan: > ºI have faith in their words, that's why I am here. > ºLove, > ºAlton > > Sorry but I fail to see that as a valid reason: there are many books filled with all their recorded words and all are available. > > Love, > Jan ******* Doesn't wash with me either. :-) This boy's clearly here for a good time! :-) Fess up Alton! :-) Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 On 7/1/01 at 1:27 AM judirhodes wrote: º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: º> On 6/30/01 at 11:31 PM ALTON A ALTON wrote: º> º> ºDear Jan: º> ºI have faith in their words, that's why I am here. º> ºLove, º> ºAlton º> º> Sorry but I fail to see that as a valid reason: there are many books ºfilled with all their recorded words and all are available. º> º> Love, º> Jan º º******* ºDoesn't wash with me either. :-) ºThis boy's clearly here for a good time! :-) Yes, and "here" is the Internet That much could be read from the profile: http://profiles./lostnfoundation Compare this with that of a dear unknown: http://profiles./nieznane º ºFess up Alton! :-) What could be the ideal of a worshipper? Freight?:-) Jan º ºJudi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 , "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: > On 7/1/01 at 1:27 AM judirhodes@e... wrote: > > º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: > º> On 6/30/01 at 11:31 PM ALTON A ALTON wrote: > º> > º> ºDear Jan: > º> ºI have faith in their words, that's why I am here. > º> ºLove, > º> ºAlton > º> > º> Sorry but I fail to see that as a valid reason: there are many books > ºfilled with all their recorded words and all are available. > º> > º> Love, > º> Jan > º > º******* > ºDoesn't wash with me either. :-) > ºThis boy's clearly here for a good time! :-) > > Yes, and "here" is the Internet > That much could be read from the profile: http://profiles./lostnfoundation ***** LOL! Was I right or what? :-) > º > ºFess up Alton! :-) > > What could be the ideal of a worshipper? Freight?:-) > ***** LOL! Yes, these *men of religion* you really got to watch out for! :-) Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 On 7/1/01 at 1:58 AM judirhodes wrote: º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: º> On 7/1/01 at 1:27 AM judirhodes@e... wrote: º> º> º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: º> º> On 6/30/01 at 11:31 PM ALTON A ALTON wrote: º> º> º> º> ºDear Jan: º> º> ºI have faith in their words, that's why I am here. º> º> ºLove, º> º> ºAlton º> º> º> º> Sorry but I fail to see that as a valid reason: there are many ºbooks º> ºfilled with all their recorded words and all are available. º> º> º> º> Love, º> º> Jan º> º º> º******* º> ºDoesn't wash with me either. :-) º> ºThis boy's clearly here for a good time! :-) º> º> Yes, and "here" is the Internet º> That much could be read from the profile: ºhttp://profiles./lostnfoundation º º***** LOL! Was I right or what? :-) Certainly - that's why I took a look at a few profiles º º º> º º> ºFess up Alton! :-) º> º> What could be the ideal of a worshipper? Freight?:-) º> º***** LOL! Yes, these *men of religion* you really got to ºwatch out for! :-) Yes, I recognize them from my youth: "mind over matter" translated as "power of words over people" Jan º ºJudi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Anyone on the list who is interested, have fun :-) -- 'my profile' http://profiles./fewtch , "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: > Certainly - that's why I took a look at a few profiles > º***** LOL! Yes, these *men of religion* you really got to > ºwatch out for! :-) > > Yes, I recognize them from my youth: "mind over matter" > translated as "power of words over people" It doesn't seem too "charitable" to make an assumption like that based only on a mere profile... but who am 'i' to speak :-) Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 On 7/1/01 at 2:25 AM Omkara wrote: ºAnyone on the list who is interested, have fun :-) -- 'my profile' º ºhttp://profiles./fewtch Nice picture - nice climate where palms are growing Seattle in 50 years maybe? º º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: º> Certainly - that's why I took a look at a few profiles º> º***** LOL! Yes, these *men of religion* you really got to º> ºwatch out for! :-) º> º> Yes, I recognize them from my youth: "mind over matter" º> translated as "power of words over people" º ºIt doesn't seem too "charitable" to make an assumption like that ºbased only on a mere profile... but who am 'i' to speak :-) º ºTim Isn't that an assumption - that something is an assumption and then, based only on a mere profile? Joy and Light, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 , "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: > ºIt doesn't seem too "charitable" to make an assumption like that > ºbased only on a mere profile... but who am 'i' to speak :-) > º > ºTim > > Isn't that an assumption - that something is an assumption and > then, based only on a mere profile? Of course. But isn't all "list conversation" a series of "educated assumptions?" <laugh>. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 On 7/1/01 at 3:03 AM Omkara wrote: º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: º º> ºIt doesn't seem too "charitable" to make an assumption like that º> ºbased only on a mere profile... but who am 'i' to speak :-) º> º º> ºTim º> º> Isn't that an assumption - that something is an assumption and º> then, based only on a mere profile? º ºOf course. But isn't all "list conversation" a series of "educated ºassumptions?" <laugh>. That prompts the question, is there the assumption there is something like observation or the observation that there is something like assumption Jan º ºTim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 , "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote: > ºOf course. But isn't all "list conversation" a series > of "educated ºassumptions?" <laugh>. > > That prompts the question, is there the assumption there is > something like observation or the observation that there is > something like assumption Not sure if that is meant as an "either or" question, or the entire sentence as the question. Either way there could be no "straight answer," except that if so, it would be purely "external" -- a wheel turns 'in the distance', but nothing is connected to that wheel -- it can simply be 'observed' to keep spinning, or ignored. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 At 01:10 AM 7/1/01 +0100, you wrote: On 6/30/01 at 11:31 PM ALTON A ALTON wrote: ºDear Jan: ºI have faith in their words, that's why I am here. ºLove, ºAlton Sorry but I fail to see that as a valid reason: there are many books filled with all their recorded words and all are available. And mere words never convince(d) me, too often having observed the phenomenon "thinking A, saying B but doing C". Regarding this, C.G. Jung once remarked that though he could see Ramana as the whitest spot in India, he failed to understand why "highest truth" had to coincide with an utterly neglected body (body is Self too...) So despite having the opportunity to visit Ramana, he didn't... Love, Jan Dear Jan, There is much humor when the Self decides not to take the opportunity to visit the Self, because there may be a neglected body at the site of the visit. So, the Self went ... elsewhere? Lol! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 To worship, one must externalize. Typically, what is externalized is one's own "ideals" ... Worshipping one's own projection is just another way to avoid "being" ... What humans call spirituality has little to do with "reality" ... "Reality" being without an external place projected, and thus, without an "inner place" to exist ... Namaste, Dan Ghandi wasn't what I'd call an enlightened person by any stretch of the imagination. He is often deified by people who do not know the entire story of his life etc. but he is not deserving of worship in my opinion. His betrayal of the Sikhs shows that he was indeed human and while his intentions may have been pure to start, he had failings just like everyone else. Don't decide on whom to worship by the sole fact of whether they get angry or not. To be human is to get angry & impatient at times, there is no getting around it. I, personally, wouldn't worship a human as I have found that no matter what the title, we all put our pants on one leg at a time and one is bound to be disappointed by using this strategy..but again this is solely my own opinion. Kind Regards, Jeremy /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 On 7/1/01 at 2:07 PM Daniel Berkow wrote: At 01:10 AM 7/1/01 +0100, you wrote: On 6/30/01 at 11:31 PM ALTON A ALTON wrote:ºDear Jan:ºI have faith in their words, that's why I am here.ºLove,ºAltonSorry but I fail to see that as a valid reason: there are many books filled withall their recorded words and all are available.And mere words never convince(d) me, too often having observed the phenomenon"thinking A, saying B but doing C". Regarding this, C.G. Jung once remarked thatthough he could see Ramana as the whitest spot in India, he failed to understandwhy "highest truth" had to coincide with an utterly neglected body (body is Self too...)So despite having the opportunity to visit Ramana, he didn't... Love,Jan Dear Jan,There is much humor when the Self decides not to take the opportunity to visit the Self, because there may be a neglected body at the site of the visit.So, the Self went ... elsewhere?Lol!Dan Funny indeed! the Self has a taste for a Heart that is vast the Self goes nowhere when it's empty there Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2001 Report Share Posted July 2, 2001 Hi one and all, An exploration in language. Being is essence. Becoming is energy. Essence is unknown. This knows not. Is is. No more than that. To speak of being is to make an entity. All manifestation is energy; becoming. Becoming without any progress towards. Without anything becoming anything. There is not an entity, only becoming. Worship here is celebration of energy as energy by energy. What energy 'does'. The dance. love, andrew Daniel Berkow wrote: > > Hi Tim and Andrew -- > > Where is the definable > continuing entity that > compares where it was > to what it is "becoming" ... ? > > Where is the separation > of being that allows an ongoing > existence to move through time > with a permanent nature of > some kind. > > If no "for sure real entity", then > "becoming" can only be conceptual, only > be meaningful to whatever extent that > memory-based temporal comparisons > and the associated projected future > are meaningful. > > Can "mind" compare a really existing > past with a for-sure future? > If not, "becoming" is purely conceptual, > without "real" grounding ... > > The becoming process seems only relevant > in conventional conceptual dialogues > ("I am going to school to become a doctor") > less relevant in highly abstract and > speculative dialogues ("I am becoming a > better person" or "I am becoming more > aware") and fruitless for > "inquiry into/as 'reality'" ... > > Reality becoming more real, > Dan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2001 Report Share Posted July 3, 2001 Hello Alton, Why restrict the candidates for worship to humans? Why not be open to the possibility of worshipping gods, divine figures, Buddhas, bodhisattvas, etc.? Love, --Greg At 08:30 PM 6/30/01 -0000, lostnfoundation wrote: >Both Nisargadatta and Ramana don't meet my standards of who to >worship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2001 Report Share Posted July 3, 2001 Hmmm-worshipping, at least from a far, doesn't work with deities- one actually has to become them, bit by bit and one by one, and also see the universe as deity mandala. Wonderful nonduality practice. Hi Greg, Though you were off marrying and home hunting - CONGRATULATIONs and Many Blessings! #1 Blessing to be a nice apartment- Joyce Hello Alton, Why restrict the candidates for worship to humans? Why not be open to the possibility of worshipping gods, divine figures, Buddhas, bodhisattvas, etc.? Love, --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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