jb-Worship

[Guest guest]

, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote:

> The reason why the NT mentions a first and second death is

> because it comes with a few observable symptoms/side-effects, the

> same for all humans. Of course it doesn't violate statements like

> "burning out of tendencies". But it is more accurate regarding

> "what can be observed".

 

It makes no sense here as to "what can be observed (for all humans)"

because only a few 'systems' mention it. Commonly

observable 'phenomena' logically have a 'common thread'

through 'human literature'.

 

In the general case of "nonduality," that applies nicely... in the

case of "first and second death," (at least noticed here) it doesn't

seem like a common 'mention'. It isn't even reflected in the

observation, "one can take leave of life only once" :-).

> Impressions are made in all matter - no matter how subtle.

 

Yes, but only 'momentarily'... as a bird flying leaves no trail, or a

flash of lightning does not burn a black mark into the sky.

> In Advaitic terminology the body then is like a burnt cloth that

> still resembles a cloth but on touch is just a heap of ash.

 

It seems only a (small) subset of "advaitic terminology" covers that.

> And anything concerning matter is beyond imagination - a molecule

> consists of atoms, consisting of elementary particles also acting

> as waves, particles consisting of quarks and who can prove that is

> the end?

 

Indeed... there is no apparent end to the mental labeling.

 

Joy & Happiness,

 

Tim

[Guest guest]

On 7/1/01 at 3:38 AM Omkara wrote:

 

º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote:

º> The reason why the NT mentions a first and second death is

º> because it comes with a few observable symptoms/side-effects, the

º> same for all humans. Of course it doesn't violate statements like

º> "burning out of tendencies". But it is more accurate regarding

º> "what can be observed".

º

ºIt makes no sense here as to "what can be observed (for all humans)"

ºbecause only a few 'systems' mention it. Commonly

ºobservable 'phenomena' logically have a 'common thread'

ºthrough 'human literature'.

 

The Buddha did mention it too - in a different terminology.

º

ºIn the general case of "nonduality," that applies nicely... in the

ºcase of "first and second death," (at least noticed here) it doesn't

ºseem like a common 'mention'. It isn't even reflected in the

ºobservation, "one can take leave of life only once" :-).

 

The term "death" is from the perspective of

firmly rooted conditioning that won't "leave" without causing

severe pain. Without childhood conditioning, the issue of

first death is moot.

º

º> Impressions are made in all matter - no matter how subtle.

º

ºYes, but only 'momentarily'... as a bird flying leaves no trail, or a

ºflash of lightning does not burn a black mark into the sky.

 

A bird leaves a momentary trail in the air (look with polarized light to see the

turbulence)

and that leaves more subtle traces etc. etc. - seemingly ending at subatomic

level.

º

º> In Advaitic terminology the body then is like a burnt cloth that

º> still resembles a cloth but on touch is just a heap of ash.

º

ºIt seems only a (small) subset of "advaitic terminology" covers that.

 

It's a rare occasion - hence.

º

º> And anything concerning matter is beyond imagination - a molecule

º> consists of atoms, consisting of elementary particles also acting

º> as waves, particles consisting of quarks and who can prove that is

º> the end?

º

ºIndeed... there is no apparent end to the mental labeling.

 

There is neither a beginning nor an end to manifestation -

something not to be overlooked.

 

Joy and Light,

Jan

º

ºJoy & Happiness,

º

ºTim