Process/progress

[Guest guest]

Dear Joyce,

Hi HO-

Thanks for the addition to the discussion :-).

Your welcome -but Ive probably muddied the waters coming in during an

on going process (discussion), one more little stream entering the

flow.

The observation 'here' -- it's possible to derive a sense of process

from the usual method of perceiving, but the idea of 'progress' is

entirely imaginary.

I wasn't responding to the word "progress" I was referring to your snip...

"I'm certainly not knocking the idea of 'process', since events can be observed to happen

in 'succession' -although that requires the use of memory - but is

there some "end goal" to these endless appearances?"

Process - a system of operations in the production of something. A

series of actions, changes or functions that bring about an end

result.

Progress - movement toward a goal, to advance towards a more desireable form.

But, I was referring to process - where a faculty of mind, mindfulness

or sati,(or santirana-citta- investigating consciousness) notes

process but is not separate from the process. That which notes,

contacts any mental event ends with that specific mental event (and

there is about 17 of them per second Im told-laugh). Through

understanding this natural prpcess of mind to change, a transcendent

flow of thought can be cultivated. This flow of transcendence will

lead mind (citta) to clarity but this is not a goal. And there are

faster ways. There will be progress in terms of name and form -but

this is secondary and relative since both mind and body go..

in Pali- Santana refers to continuity of consciousness. of the groups

of existence, of subconsciousness, of corporeality and to the

uninterrupted continuity of Patiaccasamuppada (process or dependent

origination)

So Sanatan or Santana Dharma is looking into the Truth, looking into

the principle characteristics of Santana, seeing from direct

experience beyond speculation. Mind arises with its mind object,

endures, changes and then 'dies" - moment to moment. Hooking into

the transcendent aspect of process leads to freedom. At least, in

Buddhist terms. This is not imagination as everything in Buddhism has

to be tested, one is not to take anyone's word for anything. At the

very least, one is freeing up fixation in time and space.

So -really we are in agreement.

Love

Joyce

For example, one might say "a caterpillar's goal is to become a

butterfly." But is it? Once a butterfly, the "goal" is to lay

eggs... so the statement could be rephrased "a caterpillar's goal is

to lay eggs."

But is it? The butterfly then dies. So it could be said "a

caterpillar's goal is to die."

But is it? The caterpillar's death enriches the soil. So is the

goal of a caterpillar to enrich the soil?

And this is just one small example of a myriad of 'processes'

happening all over, each one subtly affecting the other -- which

leads to the observation that 'causation' itself is an arbitrary

notion. To pick some arbitrary process spanning some

arbitrary 'timeframe' and make a "goal" out of it or derive a sense

of progress... can only be human imagination at work.

Love,

Tim

, "Joyce Short" <insight@s...> wrote:

>

>

> i'm certainly not knocking the idea of 'process', since events can

be

> observed to happen 'in succession'

>

> Popping in for a moment - this email arrived in the flow

of "process"

> -self-habit "I" makes contact with mind object/mental event - memory

> occurring which actually happily maintains "I". Events are observed

with

> mind faculty called 'mindfulness"- if mindfulness can be

maintained, moment

> to moment, no clinging at point, no "I" (no karma). With contact,

feeling

> occurs, pulling a mental event to 'self'-pushing an event away or

neutral.

> Mind can be trained to watch itself as process. Life force flows

on -

> relinquishment of contact/clinging occurs, relinquishment of "I"

and "mine".

> This in Buddhism is called arising of 'path consciousness'-alas,

can't be

> willed. It arises near the end stages of the Vipassana stages of

insight or

> nanas. "Stages" are every experience of every phenomena, an

unfolding of

> insight. Cheer up! Aversion to arisings is quite near the end

stages and

> moving into more interesting bits. Yet, Samsara and Nirvana are

> One/Truth/Wholeness, process and appearance the expression of 'One'.

>

> Couldn't resist. I do seva as a transcriber (enlightened

selfishness) and

> at the moment I'm working on Dependent Origination for Thai Achan.

>

> Popping out again - J.

>

>

> (although that requires the use of

> memory) -- but is there some "end goal" to this "endless" appearance

> of process?

>

> Love,

>

> Tim

/join

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and

subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of

the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always

Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart

to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the

Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It

Self. Welcome all to a.

Terms of Service

<> .

[Guest guest]

, "Joyce Short" <insight@s...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Your welcome -but Ive probably muddied the waters coming in during

an on

> going process (discussion), one more little stream entering the

flow.

>

******

Joyce, I see your mouth moving, but I don't see anything

coming out? I couldn't understand a word of what you said,

nor could I see a point? Have you been smoking something?

:-)

 

Judi

[Guest guest]

, judirhodes@e... wrote:

> , "Joyce Short" <insight@s...> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Your welcome -but Ive probably muddied the waters coming in during

> an on

> > going process (discussion), one more little stream entering the

> flow.

> >

> ******

> Joyce, I see your mouth moving, but I don't see anything

> coming out? I couldn't understand a word of what you said,

> nor could I see a point? Have you been smoking something?

> :-)

>

> Judi

 

*****

Reminds of Christiana, a flurry of words, but for the life of you,

you can't understand a word of it.

 

Where'd she go anyway, haven't seen her around in months.

Has anyone heard from her?

 

Judi