Tim, Joyce-Process

[Guest guest]

Hi Tim, Joyce --

Enjoying your discussion.

"Process"involves "becoming" --

Process assumes some kind of

ongoing continuity that changes

form while retaining its "essence",

thus able to be classified as "some

kind of process".

Without such assumption, no processes.

Of course, no process of communication

here without making such assumptions,

even moment to moment while reading

"unfolding" sentences, each sentence

involving a process of meaning-making ...

"Meaning" as an assumed process ...

The letters of the sentence become

meaningful as they "proceed" to be

construed word by word ...

Namaste,

Dan

Dear Joyce,

Thanks for the addition to the discussion :-).

The observation 'here' -- it's possible to derive a sense of process

from the usual method of perceiving, but the idea of 'progress' is

entirely imaginary.

For example, one might say "a caterpillar's goal is to become a

butterfly." But is it? Once a butterfly, the

"goal" is to lay

eggs... so the statement could be rephrased "a caterpillar's goal is

to lay eggs."

But is it? The butterfly then dies. So it could be said

"a

caterpillar's goal is to die."

But is it? The caterpillar's death enriches the soil. So is

the

goal of a caterpillar to enrich the soil?

And this is just one small example of a myriad of 'processes'

happening all over, each one subtly affecting the other -- which

leads to the observation that 'causation' itself is an arbitrary

notion. To pick some arbitrary process spanning some

arbitrary 'timeframe' and make a "goal" out of it or derive a

sense

of progress... can only be human imagination at work.

Love,

Tim

, "Joyce Short" <insight@s...>

wrote:

>

>

> i'm certainly not knocking the idea of 'process', since events can

be

> observed to happen 'in succession'

>

> Popping in for a moment - this email arrived in the flow

of "process"

> -self-habit "I" makes contact with mind object/mental

event - memory

> occurring which actually happily maintains "I". Events are

observed

with

> mind faculty called 'mindfulness"- if mindfulness can be

maintained, moment

> to moment, no clinging at point, no "I" (no karma). With

contact,

feeling

> occurs, pulling a mental event to 'self'-pushing an event away or

neutral.

> Mind can be trained to watch itself as process. Life force flows

on -

> relinquishment of contact/clinging occurs, relinquishment of

"I"

and "mine".

> This in Buddhism is called arising of 'path consciousness'-alas,

can't be

> willed. It arises near the end stages of the Vipassana stages of

insight or

> nanas. "Stages" are every experience of every phenomena,

an

unfolding of

> insight. Cheer up! Aversion to arisings is quite near

the end

stages and

> moving into more interesting bits. Yet, Samsara and Nirvana are

> One/Truth/Wholeness, process and appearance the expression of

'One'.

>

> Couldn't resist. I do seva as a transcriber (enlightened

selfishness) and

> at the moment I'm working on Dependent Origination for Thai

Achan.

>

> Popping out again - J.

>

>

> (although that requires the use of

> memory) -- but is there some "end goal" to this

"endless" appearance

> of process?

>

> Love,

>

> Tim

/join

 

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