Guest guest Posted July 3, 2001 Report Share Posted July 3, 2001 who is the real DB?....would he please step out from behind the endlessly tedious verbal discriminations of 'neti, neti'.... Yes, will the 'real' Dan stand up and introduce himself! Laugh! And who is this 'white wolf' guy anyhoo? Always banging on about the Beloved! Thought. Perhaps the love of Beloved, and "Beloved', being vast and unconditional has space enough for neti, neti , pictures and pomes. Perhaps neti ,neti is a denial of all that might get in the way of the immediate presence of Love-perhaps merely an expression of Love. "Love is an integral embrace of all that is"- except Dan's means of expression? When I first encountered Dan's posts -I thought ha! parroting Nisargadatta, etc. Sneer. But, had to look at that one and suck it up, since I'm a parrot of many colored plumage. When I can own my own sneering and parroting here, Im less likely to give it away to another. "Tony' also was great practice. Did I like it, NO! Did it feel good! argh! Did I feel completely ashamed of myself after this encounter? Yes! Do I continue to feel sad about it? Yes, but have to allow sadness as well. Is the Beloved complete openness to everything without exception, with or without my approval? To me, yes! So -getting over myself somewhat I began to actually stop resisiting, judging and actually be open and reflect on what Dan posted. I've found what he says immensely useful to help cut through crap. Beyond the content of Dan's posts, he is unfailing kind and constant. The 'bodhisattva' never turns his back on anyone. Would I like to be like this? Yes. I know my posts are lengthy and muddled. Dan has always taken time and patiently managed to sift through it and return something coherent. Seems like 'heart' in action to me. For me, this list seems typical sangha, real practice, What am I accepting, what am I rejecting? Is there the interminable process of judging present? Is ego delighted when someone likes its productions and pissed when someone is 'unkind?" laugh. If mind separates from anything, finding preferences, where is the Beloved then? Love, Joyce i long to hear your heart sing DanSan....for me, the way of spiritual denial unfolds into affirmation....for me, the way of philosophical denial collapses nihilism enfolding nihilism into absurdity....i hear in your words a cry of one lost in a wilderness of mental constructs mirroring one another...i hear a heart filled with the longing of unrequited love awaiting to arise into love, endless love...beyond worship and not worship is love....love is an integral embrace of all that is....it is not a systematic denial of all creation....nothing created something to arise into something more glorious...."Lazarus, come forth.".....the ego must be destroyed so that higher consciousness can arise....the 'forbidden fruit' of higher consciousness is compassion, i.e., suffering as a bodhisattva suffers as the son of man suffered on the cross of golgotha.....DanSan...seek the face of the beloved!.....^^~~~~~ further up and further in, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2001 Report Share Posted July 3, 2001 Right on Joyce :-) Dan has been my favorite Bodhisattva for a number of years now, who never turns his back on anyone for he has neither front nor back, nor a place to turn it to... And by the way... I am the Beloved that White Wolfe is always banging about .... that is.... I am also not that.... ;-) Love, Mira Joyce: >>>who is the real DB?....would he please step out from behind the endlessly tedious verbal discriminations of 'neti, neti'....Yes, will the 'real' Dan stand up and introduce himself! Laugh!And who is this 'white wolf' guy anyhoo? Always banging on about the Beloved!Thought. Perhaps the love of Beloved, and "Beloved', being vast and unconditional has space enough for neti, neti , pictures and pomes. Perhaps neti ,neti is a denial of all that might get in the way of the immediate presence of Love-perhaps merely an expression of Love. "Love is an integral embrace of all that is"- except Dan's means of expression?When I first encountered Dan's posts -I thought ha! parroting Nisargadatta, etc. Sneer. But, had to look at that one and suck it up, since I'm a parrot of many colored plumage. When I can own my own sneering and parroting here, Im less likely to give it away to another. "Tony' also was great practice. Did I like it, NO! Did it feel good! argh! Did I feel completely ashamed of myself after this encounter? Yes! Do I continue to feel sad about it? Yes, but have to allow sadness as well. Is the Beloved complete openness to everything without exception, with or without my approval? To me, yes!So -getting over myself somewhat I began to actually stop resisiting, judging and actually be open and reflect on what Dan posted. I've found what he says immensely useful to help cut through crap.Beyond the content of Dan's posts, he is unfailing kind and constant. The 'bodhisattva' never turns his back on anyone. Would I like to be like this? Yes. I know my posts are lengthy and muddled. Dan has always taken time and patiently managed to sift through it and return something coherent. Seems like 'heart' in action to me.For me, this list seems typical sangha, real practice, What am I accepting, what am I rejecting? Is there the interminable process of judging present? Is ego delighted when someone likes its productions and pissed when someone is 'unkind?" laugh. If mind separates from anything, finding preferences, where is the Beloved then?Love,Joycei long to hear your heart sing DanSan....for me, the way of spiritual denial unfolds into affirmation....for me, the way of philosophical denial collapses nihilism enfolding nihilism into absurdity....i hear in your words a cry of one lost in a wilderness of mental constructs mirroring one another...i hear a heart filled with the longing of unrequited love awaiting to arise into love, endless love...beyond worship and not worship is love....love is an integral embrace of all that is....it is not a systematic denial of all creation....nothing created something to arise into something more glorious...."Lazarus, come forth.".....the ego must be destroyed so that higher consciousness can arise....the 'forbidden fruit' of higher consciousness is compassion, i.e., suffering as a bodhisattva suffers as the son of man suffered on the cross of golgotha.....DanSan...seek the face of the beloved!.....^^~~~~~ further up and further in, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2001 Report Share Posted July 3, 2001 dear joyce....dansan does not parrot nisargadatta, he parrots himself....he reminds me of one my favorite TV (which i no longer watch) commentators of all time, Howard Cosell (HC always reminded me of me and what a tedious, pompous bore i can be)...always 'banging on about the beloved" kinda thing....hence i have ceased writing poetry for the present at least writing anymore poetry...i had reached a place where i was reaching so hard i was parroting myself....i asked Mira about dansan....all that she could tell me was that she thinks he is a professor of what she knows not what and that she thinks he might be a counselor....so, my question to dansan which i was posted to him months and months ago stands...but since i did not get it right the first time.... Dansan.....will you please take your hat off and introduce yourself.....Mira says you are kind so I accept that....remember when i asked you if you liked semiotics and all that you could do was pun....'seem-i-o-tics i think'....i am posting this to the list, since your fan club has mis-perceived the meaning of my message to you, but it might be better to dialogue off-list....i mean like gee whiz, sheez...am i supposed to get out my cybersword and slay you now...i mean, gosh...everyone is telling me that i have met a bodhisattva on the road....shall i slay him....naw!...the way is already littered with road-kill....i would rather engage you in serious debate.....if i slay you, i slay myself and i am ready to lay my life down for myself but who would take care of my daughters then?!?....if bodhisattva's start slaying each other who will save the world from itself....but, oh of course....despite the fact that i can smell roses right now 'i am not here'.....to quote a fictional infamous philosopher king by the name of Scooge, "Bah, humbug!"....sorry for the sarcasm but it can be a very non-dual way of saying what cannot be said otherwise....which brings us back to semiotics....i live in The Netherlands now with my beloved....very busy learning a new culture and language, etc... .....coming full circle back to joyce......there are three great religions in the world today (and Daniel Quinn attacks all three of them calling for a regression/progression into animism).....hinduism, buddhism and catholcism....they are equal and complementary in my view....'worship' seems to be one of the common denominations there all have in common....effete academics like myself often think that their mental concepts have elevated them above the need to rollick in the mud, ie.a, worship with the commoners....one of the many things my beloved Mira is teaching me is the need for humility....i send you all what i send myself....the noble sword of the bodhisatva Manjusri to slay all false mental conceptualization as Arjuna slayed his brothers....with a spirit of devoted to truth and beauty....with compassion and love....Namaste.....^^~~~~~ further up and further in, white wolfe - Joyce Short Tuesday, July 03, 2001 5:16 PM Re:' Dan' stuff who is the real DB?....would he please step out from behind the endlessly tedious verbal discriminations of 'neti, neti'....Yes, will the 'real' Dan stand up and introduce himself! Laugh!And who is this 'white wolf' guy anyhoo? Always banging on about the Beloved!Thought. Perhaps the love of Beloved, and "Beloved', being vast and unconditional has space enough for neti, neti , pictures and pomes. Perhaps neti ,neti is a denial of all that might get in the way of the immediate presence of Love-perhaps merely an expression of Love. "Love is an integral embrace of all that is"- except Dan's means of expression?When I first encountered Dan's posts -I thought ha! parroting Nisargadatta, etc. Sneer. But, had to look at that one and suck it up, since I'm a parrot of many colored plumage. When I can own my own sneering and parroting here, Im less likely to give it away to another. "Tony' also was great practice. Did I like it, NO! Did it feel good! argh! Did I feel completely ashamed of myself after this encounter? Yes! Do I continue to feel sad about it? Yes, but have to allow sadness as well. Is the Beloved complete openness to everything without exception, with or without my approval? To me, yes!So -getting over myself somewhat I began to actually stop resisiting, judging and actually be open and reflect on what Dan posted. I've found what he says immensely useful to help cut through crap.Beyond the content of Dan's posts, he is unfailing kind and constant. The 'bodhisattva' never turns his back on anyone. Would I like to be like this? Yes. I know my posts are lengthy and muddled. Dan has always taken time and patiently managed to sift through it and return something coherent. Seems like 'heart' in action to me.For me, this list seems typical sangha, real practice, What am I accepting, what am I rejecting? Is there the interminable process of judging present? Is ego delighted when someone likes its productions and pissed when someone is 'unkind?" laugh. If mind separates from anything, finding preferences, where is the Beloved then?Love,Joycei long to hear your heart sing DanSan....for me, the way of spiritual denial unfolds into affirmation....for me, the way of philosophical denial collapses nihilism enfolding nihilism into absurdity....i hear in your words a cry of one lost in a wilderness of mental constructs mirroring one another...i hear a heart filled with the longing of unrequited love awaiting to arise into love, endless love...beyond worship and not worship is love....love is an integral embrace of all that is....it is not a systematic denial of all creation....nothing created something to arise into something more glorious...."Lazarus, come forth.".....the ego must be destroyed so that higher consciousness can arise....the 'forbidden fruit' of higher consciousness is compassion, i.e., suffering as a bodhisattva suffers as the son of man suffered on the cross of golgotha.....DanSan...seek the face of the beloved!.....^^~~~~~ further up and further in, /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Dear White Wolfe, Forgive the indulgence in opinion, but 'from here' what you could use most is a sense of humor. As perceived 'here' you tend to take words and discussions very, very seriously... maybe you will get over this tendency sometime. Maybe it has something to do with your view of 'suffering' as an integral part of a 'path'. "A man will give up whatever pleasures you like, but he will not give up his suffering" -- G.I. Gurdjieff. There are those who have transcended suffering, and in fact who consider suffering only a failure to realize the 'obvious' -- that suffering leads nowhere but to further suffering. Love, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 , Tim Gerchmez <coresite@h...> wrote: > > Dear White Wolfe, > > Forgive the indulgence in opinion, but 'from here' what you could use most > is a sense of humor. As perceived 'here' you tend to take words and > discussions very, very seriously... maybe you will get over this tendency > sometime. > > Maybe it has something to do with your view of 'suffering' as an integral > part of a 'path'. "A man will give up whatever pleasures you like, but he > will not give up his suffering" -- G.I. Gurdjieff. > > There are those who have transcended suffering, and in fact who consider > suffering only a failure to realize the 'obvious' -- that suffering leads > nowhere but to further suffering. > > Love, > > Tim Hey there, Why worry at all about percetion get to the vibrations man....Hu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 --- Dear White Wolf, hope you and mira are both happy and well. It is none of my business, and i make no comment on anything i have seen here. i can answer some of your questions, and if it will comfort you in any way, here are the answers i do have. Dan is a professor, of psychology. He does teach a few classes in the subject. He is also a counselor. Having met him, i can say that he has been nothing but nice in my experience. Speaking in general, of him as a person, he has met with my approval. Not that it matters, for i am of no great importance, but i find conceit and arrogance, condesention of any kind, to be distasteful. i didnt feel this from Dr. Berkow (Dan), he seems quiet, private, and always very professional. Just an observation, hope it was helpful to you. Gracie In , "White Wolfe" <valemar.1@h...> wrote: > Re:' Dan' stuffdear joyce....dansan does not parrot nisargadatta, he parrots himself....he reminds me of one my favorite TV (which i no longer watch) commentators of all time, Howard Cosell (HC always reminded me of me and what a tedious, pompous bore i can be)...always 'banging on about the beloved" kinda thing....hence i have ceased writing poetry for the present at least writing anymore poetry...i had reached a place where i was reaching so hard i was parroting myself....i asked Mira about dansan....all that she could tell me was that she thinks he is a professor of what she knows not what and that she thinks he might be a counselor....so, my question to dansan which i was posted to him months and months ago stands...but since i did not get it right the first time.... > > Dansan.....will you please take your hat off and introduce yourself.....Mira says you are kind so I accept that....remember when i asked you if you liked semiotics and all that you could do was pun....'seem-i-o-tics i think'....i am posting this to the list, since your fan club has mis-perceived the meaning of my message to you, but it might be better to dialogue off-list....i mean like gee whiz, sheez...am i supposed to get out my cybersword and slay you now...i mean, gosh...everyone is telling me that i have met a bodhisattva on the road....shall i slay him....naw!...the way is already littered with road-kill....i would rather engage you in serious debate.....if i slay you, i slay myself and i am ready to lay my life down for myself but who would take care of my daughters then?!?....if bodhisattva's start slaying each other who will save the world from itself....but, oh of course....despite the fact that i can smell roses right now 'i am not here'.....to quote a fictional infamous philosopher king by the name of Scooge, "Bah, humbug!"....sorry for the sarcasm but it can be a very non-dual way of saying what cannot be said otherwise....which brings us back to semiotics....i live in The Netherlands now with my beloved....very busy learning a new culture and language, etc... > > ....coming full circle back to joyce......there are three great religions in the world today (and Daniel Quinn attacks all three of them calling for a regression/progression into animism).....hinduism, buddhism and catholcism....they are equal and complementary in my view....'worship' seems to be one of the common denominations there all have in common....effete academics like myself often think that their mental concepts have elevated them above the need to rollick in the mud, ie.a, worship with the commoners....one of the many things my beloved Mira is teaching me is the need for humility....i send you all what i send myself....the noble sword of the bodhisatva Manjusri to slay all false mental conceptualization as Arjuna slayed his brothers....with a spirit of devoted to truth and beauty....with compassion and love....Namaste.....^^~~~~~ > > further up and further in, > > white wolfe > - > Joyce Short > > Tuesday, July 03, 2001 5:16 PM > Re:' Dan' stuff > > > > > who is the real DB?....would he please step out from behind the endlessly tedious verbal discriminations of 'neti, neti'.... > > Yes, will the 'real' Dan stand up and introduce himself! Laugh! > > And who is this 'white wolf' guy anyhoo? Always banging on about the Beloved! > > Thought. Perhaps the love of Beloved, and "Beloved', being vast and unconditional has space enough for neti, neti , pictures and pomes. Perhaps neti ,neti is a denial of all that might get in the way of the immediate presence of Love-perhaps merely an expression of Love. "Love is an integral embrace of all that is"- except Dan's means of expression? > > When I first encountered Dan's posts -I thought ha! parroting Nisargadatta, etc. Sneer. But, had to look at that one and suck it up, since I'm a parrot of many colored plumage. When I can own my own sneering and parroting here, Im less likely to give it away to another. "Tony' also was great practice. Did I like it, NO! Did it feel good! argh! Did I feel completely ashamed of myself after this encounter? Yes! Do I continue to feel sad about it? Yes, but have to allow sadness as well. Is the Beloved complete openness to everything without exception, with or without my approval? To me, yes! > > So -getting over myself somewhat I began to actually stop resisiting, judging and actually be open and reflect on what Dan posted. I've found what he says immensely useful to help cut through crap. > > Beyond the content of Dan's posts, he is unfailing kind and constant. The 'bodhisattva' never turns his back on anyone. Would I like to be like this? Yes. I know my posts are lengthy and muddled. Dan has always taken time and patiently managed to sift through it and return something coherent. Seems like 'heart' in action to me. > > For me, this list seems typical sangha, real practice, What am I accepting, what am I rejecting? Is there the interminable process of judging present? Is ego delighted when someone likes its productions and pissed when someone is 'unkind?" laugh. If mind separates from anything, finding preferences, where is the Beloved then? > > Love, > > Joyce > > > i long to hear your heart sing DanSan....for me, the way of spiritual denial unfolds into affirmation....for me, the way of philosophical denial collapses nihilism enfolding nihilism into absurdity....i hear in your words a cry of one lost in a wilderness of mental constructs mirroring one another...i hear a heart filled with the longing of unrequited love awaiting to arise into love, endless love...beyond worship and not worship is love....love is an integral embrace of all that is....it is not a systematic denial of all creation....nothing created something to arise into something more glorious...."Lazarus, come forth.".....the ego must be destroyed so that higher consciousness can arise....the 'forbidden fruit' of higher consciousness is compassion, i.e., suffering as a bodhisattva suffers as the son of man suffered on the cross of golgotha.....DanSan...seek the face of the beloved!.....^^~~~~~ > > further up and further in, > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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