Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Hi Jan, , "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: > Well, it isn't difficult to see the species "homo sapiens" is living > at the expense of the other species - including "homo sapiens'" > offspring. And what is seen in abundance here, are fat kids - > obese to the extent of dictating a limitation on how to move... Yes, that is an (inter)national problem -- and also its opposite, starvation (in so called "underdeveloped" countries). That could be seen as a result of wrong allocation of resources... and also, "unhappiness" prompts overeating (not to mention other "social ills" like drinking too much, drug abuse and such). Exercise is relative to activity level... the body naturally maintains whatever level of "fitness" is needed for activity level, if overeating is not a factor. If a "higher level of fitness" is wanted than is 'needed' for activity level, that's always an option... according to science it can help increase lifespan of the body. > ºQuite possible... others are saying, even if that's true the Earth > ºwill "re-balance" itself. People are always thinking and talking, > ºthat never changes <laugh>. > > What if the balance was that of a ball lying on top of a mountain? > Here, that scenario is tangible, seeing the Teide daily and having > visited the top... Some are saying that the earth has a "natural intelligence" and will in fact correct the balance in some unknown way. The argument is that for millions of years the earth is "doing fine," so why different now? But it might just be "justification" for further destruction -- i don't know enough about all the various viewpoints. > As if the laws of nature would be canceled when knowing "who am > I?"?. Those laws do not depend on an "I"... Of course... understood 'here'. Suffering does depend on an "I" however, and without one suffering is impossible -- that doesn't mean physical pain won't be felt, but if the suffering entity isn't imagined to be present, neither will be suffering. Joy & Happiness, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 On 7/11/01 at 1:29 PM Wim Borsboom wrote: ºDear Jan, º ºAlthough the way I answer the following may sound short and abrupt... ºYou know I mean this with all love and acknowledgement that you are... That reminds of cases where despite the intellectual knowledge "there is only Love", that isn't perceived º ºWim and Jan: º> > The redundancy factor? º> A matter of adaptability? º> > The redundancy factor? º> A matter of adaptability? º> > The redundancy factor? º> A matter of adaptability? º ºWim: º> > Ah, the problems humans have with death ! º> > Ah, the problems humans have with life ! º º> > Don't take me wrong, I have had enough problems with both. º> > Until the problems disappeared into a realm of conceptuality º ºJan: º> Yes - that figures. So how can problems still be *seen* ? º> That doesn't *figure* at all º ºOf course not, it cannot *figure*... :-) ºOne does not *see* problems, one does not *perceive* problems (sense ºperception) one *conceives* of them. One can only conceptualize them... ºhence illusion. Well, regarding problems, here, none are seen - in the same sense that the issue of "I and you" has become irrelevant. And more than that issue can move into the realm of irrelevance... All issues. Which leaves but concepts - if there is a history in memory of the issues, "transformed" from perceptual to conceptual... º ºWim: º> > When one works the two concepts well enough, there is no way of ºtelling º> > whether one is dead or alive. º> > The concept of the concepts of opposites is by itself conceptual. º ºJan: º> Of course - manifested life is but conceptual - all imagined! º ºuh uh :-) :-) ºsatori laughter º(((((:-))))) No laughter - when the body can be fed through the shredder without any sense of discomfort, what other remark than that manifested life is conceptual? And that "perspective" can be known before pain becomes a concept º ºMan, Jan... that was fun... º º(((-)) For one still in rapture of the senses, perhaps... º ºManifested life is what is palpable, audible, visible, etc. perceptable º(from Latin 'apprehended' with sense-perceptions), not conceived (Latin º'comprehension'). When we start interpreting what we sensorially ºperceive, we start conceptualizing, hence... illusion (and even ºdelusion) may arise, when the attributed reality to "imagined concepts" ºovertake the reality of the perceived data. (Reality from Latin "res", º"thing".) ºData are measured (maya), recorded by the senses... (a "relativity" ºfeature). Brainy fatcells, cholesterol the good kind :-), in humans ºmostly found in the skull, called the "brain" :-) store the data. The ºmind categorises the data and keeps track of linkages and aids in ºsteering (cybernatica, governing, helmsman, stuurkunde). When the mental ºcatagorization of data gets confused through inappropriate interference ºbrought about by the trauma of illussive fear mongering, 'mentality' ºovertakes 'reality' and imagines it is "first and foremost" and that, ºwhatever it gets supplied with by the senses, that the mind has actually ºcreated those data. This is a disorder, that can be solved by "coming to ºyour senses". º ºManifested life is called reality... what is... that is why it is called ºmanifested... ºEnergy, Mandelbrot like in all its forms and formulations, from the ºuttermost subtle and simple to the uttermost gross and complex, the one ºcontained in the all, and the all contained in the one. º(The "uni-versal multidimensional time space enmeshment" of the "one º(p)article" I will just leave alone for now.) º The discovery of a lifetime is that love and compassion are but a veil Without a history of 'love and compassion', that veil appears not to have existed - in the same sense, that an "I" or a "you" never existed. Hence statements like "life has no meaning". And then, *free*, who cares about the properties of what goes under "Shakti, Maya, creation" etc., apart for the sake of argument... ºWim": º> > THIS º> > IS º> > THE º> > MIRACLE º ºJan: º> No, that is a concept º º"No" is a concept. ºWhat is, is. ºOne perceives that with wonder (the meaning of MIRACLE) ºEver looked at a child in wonderment? What is that but a response - when the veil causing it vanished, so has that particular responsiveness. º ºWim: º> > THIS IS IT º> > THIS IS ALL THERE IS TO THIS º> > Love, Wim º> > (amrita) º ºJan: º> No thanks... º ºI won't take this answer serious, Jan. :-) ºIf I would (hee, hee)I would write the following: º"You don't know what you are saying "No thanks..." to. Your mind may ºhave stored "amrita" data away and may be illusively blocking further º"amrita" data input. Your mind is conceptully precluding you from ºperceiving amrita in your reality. I know very well what has been said - as there is a history of "amrita" which is but history It is nice but there is a "better" º º> > 't is actually quite simple º> > you wanit? º º> No need for whatever ºwhen youvgotit you donwanit When there is a history of it, it can't be wanted º º> Freedom, º> Jan ºAnd Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 , "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: > No laughter - when the body can be fed through the shredder > without any sense of discomfort, what other remark than that > manifested life is conceptual? And that "perspective" can be > known before pain becomes a concept 'Experience here' is at some point, whatever perspective is to be known is "automatic" -- the "doing entity" is gone and anything remaining only an expression of " "... to imagine "choosing a perspective" is only a laugh. "What is, is" applies then, and could be stated the only 'valid' perspective when beliefs are gone. > The discovery of a lifetime is that love and compassion are but a > veil An interesting discovery... although 'experience' needs no validation, according to vedanta, love/compassion are "sattva" and thus still remaining attributes (substratum). Yet such a discovery wouldn't "prevent" love/compassion as an expression of " ". Joy & Freedom, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 On 7/11/01 at 11:01 PM Omkara wrote: º, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: º> No laughter - when the body can be fed through the shredder º> without any sense of discomfort, what other remark than that º> manifested life is conceptual? And that "perspective" can be º> known before pain becomes a concept º º'Experience here' is at some point, whatever perspective is to be ºknown is "automatic" -- the "doing entity" is gone and anything ºremaining only an expression of " "... to imagine "choosing a ºperspective" is only a laugh. But there wasn't a "doing entity" to begin with. And when something is put in quotation marks, one implication could be that it isn't meant intellectually. º º"What is, is" applies then, and could be stated the only 'valid' ºperspective when beliefs are gone. If the statement "nothing is certain" is taken as a belief, it can't be one º º> The discovery of a lifetime is that love and compassion are but a º> veil º ºAn interesting discovery... although 'experience' needs no ºvalidation, according to vedanta, love/compassion are "sattva" and ºthus still remaining attributes (substratum). Yet such a discovery ºwouldn't "prevent" love/compassion as an expression of " ". That is why the term "history" was mentioned - unless there is a history of 'love and compassion', it won't be expressed... Sattva still is a guna - upon its dissolution, what remains is its history and that will determine behavior. It could be one of the major reasons why in India, sadhus are taken care of well - as that investment could "repay" itself manifold. Freedom, Jan º ºJoy & Freedom, º ºTim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.