Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 Hello everyone, Hope you are all well and in peace. Wishing you friendship and company of good and kind people in your life. May all living beings be free of suffering and find comfort and rest in the arms of the beloved. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > Hope you are all well and in peace. Wishing you friendship and company of > good and kind people in your life. May all living beings be free of > suffering and find comfort and rest in the arms of the beloved. Thank you for the beautiful and profound greeting Harsha. Hope all is well with you and that you have had a good holiday. Love, Amanda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 mumblecat [mumblecat] Friday, July 13, 2001 10:01 PM Re: Hello Everyone Thank you for the beautiful and profound greeting Harsha. Hope all is well with you and that you have had a good holiday. Love, Amanda. Thanks Amanda for the kind sentiments. Also thank you and all the moderators for creating a nice environment to post here. Of course I know that this is a wild and crazy group! I can respect that. Peace and love to all Wishing everyone the embrace of the Heart Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 My dear Harsha, Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or Jan ??? Well, I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I forget. But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... Harsha. I don't know if we want more wisdom... there is plenty enough here... It is the mirth we want (lack) Balloon-y mirth that rubbery flubbery stuff that holds the wisdom, without a hot coloured balloon to hold it, wisdom is just hot air and gets us nowhere. We are all so 'dog darn' serious... :-) Would you believe it? We are still on about food, now it is dog and cat food... Oh, so good to have you back, we need to feel sometimes that we have been noticed by someone else than ourselves... by you...our beloved: Baghavan Harsha. When you write your monthly "Thank yous," (I admit) I always first always check to see that you have not forgotten me... because... what the heck... I know I'm worth it... Only then do I look for all the others to be mentioned by you only then do I muster some generosity and can admit that we are all worth to be known and acknowledged by .... a hoodlum... who just takes off... and we have to hold the fort... Hope you did not come back empty handed... you'd better show us the loot ! On another list I have been writing to Tony and... he answered me back. Was good... was very good... I even gave Papa swan a chance... was hard... was very hard... :-) Alton and myself have been giving each other a hard time ... but you know, we are both worth each other... (The two of us have funny accents... he a rabbi's, me a bombastic preacher's.) I love all you guys so much and and I don't forget the ladies.... Oh no..., no way Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 My Dearest Wim" Your wrote: Alton and myself have been giving each other a hard time. Wim: Please try harder to stay in the present time. Loving you loving me loving you. Alton , "Wim Borsboom" <wim@a...> wrote: > My dear Harsha, > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or Jan ??? Well, > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I forget. > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... Harsha. > > I don't know if we want more wisdom... there is plenty enough here... It > is the mirth we want (lack) Balloon-y mirth that rubbery flubbery stuff > that holds the wisdom, without a hot coloured balloon to hold it, wisdom > is just hot air and gets us nowhere. > > We are all so 'dog darn' serious... :-) > > Would you believe it? We are still on about food, now it is dog and cat > food... > > Oh, so good to have you back, we need to feel sometimes that we have > been noticed by someone else than ourselves... by you...our beloved: > Baghavan Harsha. > When you write your monthly "Thank yous," (I admit) I always first > always check to see that you have not forgotten me... because... what > the heck... I know I'm worth it... Only then do I look for all the > others to be mentioned by you only then do I muster some generosity and > can admit that we are all worth to be known and acknowledged by .... a > hoodlum... who just takes off... and we have to hold the fort... > Hope you did not come back empty handed... you'd better show us the loot > ! > > On another list I have been writing to Tony and... he answered me back. > Was good... was very good... > I even gave Papa swan a chance... was hard... was very hard... :-) > Alton and myself have been giving each other a hard time ... but you > know, we are both worth each other... (The two of us have funny > accents... he a rabbi's, me a bombastic preacher's.) > > I love all you guys so much and > and I don't forget the ladies.... > Oh no..., no way > > Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Wim Borsboom [wim] My dear Harsha, Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or Jan ??? Well, I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I forget. But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... Harsha. *********************** Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous comments. You really know how to get to somebody! Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. Thanks to the great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, Andrewji, Amandaji and others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around 20 moderators). We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the list can be sure that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, gifted, talented, wise, and sensitive people. There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make Tony part of the moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, we love you and we are holding on to you! I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their perspective which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone should feel free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a judgement call. We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of responsibility for the list environment. We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and humorous people in the satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There were so many posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to address them all. It seems we have moved on. My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in the next few days Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and professional obligations and my apologies for being slow. During my teen years and for some years after that, I went through much suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able to lead an average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good fortune and be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling of fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens my view. With gratitude to you all Thanks and lots of love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Welcome back Harsha! A spark always flashes from my monitor when your name appears between the posts again. Love, Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 I also think Alton wrote a wonderful love letter to you. A voice of Ramana into the wilderness of egos. --- Viorica Weissman <viorica wrote: > I am very glad you are back , Harsha ; > Wim wrote to you such a wonderful love letter that I > don't know > what more could be said , > > viorica. > > ===== Cognosce Te Ipsum Get personalized email addresses from Mail http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <wim@a...> wrote: > My dear Harsha, > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or Jan ??? Well, > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I forget. ******* Yes, he's a hoodlulm in sheep's clothing alright! And don't forget Sandeep and myself. When he gets around a real *hoodlum*, :-), he turns tail. Eh, Harsha? :-) LOL Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Our Dear Harsha: Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I know you for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving. Harsha wrote: I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their perspective which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone should feel free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a judgement call. We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of responsibility for the list environment. Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether to remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". It would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule the decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is not this group democratic? RSVP, Love. Alton , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...] > > My dear Harsha, > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or Jan ??? Well, > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I forget. > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... Harsha. > *********************** > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous comments. You > really know how to get to somebody! > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. Thanks to the > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, Andrewji, Amandaji and > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around 20 moderators). > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the list can be sure > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, gifted, talented, > wise, and sensitive people. > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make Tony part of the > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, we love you Tony > and we are holding on to you! > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their perspective > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone should feel > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a judgement call. > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of responsibility for the > list environment. > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and humorous people in the > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There were so many > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to address them all. > It seems we have moved on. > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in the next few days > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and professional > obligations and my apologies for being slow. > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I went through much > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able to lead an > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good fortune and be > grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling of fellowship and > friendship warms my heart and brightens my view. > > With gratitude to you all > Thanks and lots of love > Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 To my knowledge, Alton, has never been purported to be "democratic." It reflects one person's vision (albeit a very gentle, flexible, and evolving one) of an Internet mailing list as a satsangha. That person chooses the moderators and they in turn act to maintain his vision if/when he is absent. When he's around, he sometimes consults with or informally polls the moderators When there is a perceived difficulty, the moderators put aside their own ideas and they deliberate as to how best to keep the list running in accordance with the current state of the founder's vision. Democracy is a wondrous political ideal, but in practice it can be very unwieldly, with differences in vision or opinion and ongoing faction-building frequently overwhelming the actual raison d'etre of the entity to be governed -- which in this case is spiritual fellowship without undue contention or personal attack. After viewing most of the movie "Gandhi" last night, I don't think a democratic approach would serve those ends very well -- do you? On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" <lostnfoundation writes: > Our Dear Harsha: > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I know you > for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving. > > Harsha wrote: > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > perspective > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone > should feel > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > judgement call. > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of responsibility > for the list environment. > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether to > > remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". It > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule the > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is not > > this group democratic? > RSVP, > Love. > Alton > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...] > > > > My dear Harsha, > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or Jan ??? > > Well, > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I > forget. > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... > Harsha. > > *********************** > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous comments. > > You > > really know how to get to somebody! > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. Thanks > to > the > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, Andrewji, > Amandaji and > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around 20 > moderators). > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the list > can > be sure > > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, gifted, > talented, > > wise, and sensitive people. > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make Tony part > > of the > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, we love > > you > > and we are holding on to you! > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > perspective > > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone > should feel > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > judgement call. > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > responsibility for the list environment. > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and humorous > people in the > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There were so > > many > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to address > > them all. > > It seems we have moved on. > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in the next > > few days > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and > > professional obligations and my apologies for being slow. > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I went through > > much > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able to lead > > an > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good fortune and > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling of > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens my view. > > > > With gratitude to you all > > Thanks and lots of love > > Harsha > ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Dear Bruce: This is a very simple request and here is how it could work. Someone wants someone else removed from this list. A vote from those on the list is called for. Then the board can at least know what the list wants before they kick someone off. It not that just fair play? Let the board then decide that issue and what ever they decide it will be fine with me. Love,Alton , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > To my knowledge, Alton, > has never been > purported to be "democratic." > It reflects one person's > vision (albeit a very gentle, > flexible, and evolving one) > of an Internet mailing list > as a satsangha. That person > chooses the moderators and > they in turn act to maintain > his vision if/when he is > absent. When he's around, he > sometimes consults with or > informally polls the > moderators > > When there is a perceived > difficulty, the moderators > put aside their own ideas > and they deliberate as to how > best to keep the list running > in accordance with the current > state of the founder's vision. > > Democracy is a wondrous > political ideal, but in > practice it can be very > unwieldly, with differences in > vision or opinion and ongoing > faction-building frequently > overwhelming the actual > raison d'etre of the entity to > be governed -- which in this > case is spiritual fellowship > without undue contention or > personal attack. After > viewing most of the movie > "Gandhi" last night, I don't > think a democratic approach > would serve those ends very > well -- do you? > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > Our Dear Harsha: > > > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I know you > > for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving. > > > > Harsha wrote: > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > perspective > > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone > > should feel > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > judgement call. > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of responsibility > > for the list environment. > > > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether to > > > > remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". It > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule the > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is not > > > > this group democratic? > > RSVP, > > Love. > > Alton > > > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...] > > > > > > My dear Harsha, > > > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. > > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or Jan ??? > > > > Well, > > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I > > forget. > > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... > > Harsha. > > > *********************** > > > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous comments. > > > > You > > > really know how to get to somebody! > > > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. Thanks > > to > > the > > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, Andrewji, > > Amandaji and > > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around 20 > > moderators). > > > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the list > > can > > be sure > > > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, gifted, > > talented, > > > wise, and sensitive people. > > > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make Tony part > > > of the > > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, we love > > > you > > > and we are holding on to you! > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > perspective > > > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone > > should feel > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > judgement call. > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > > responsibility for the list environment. > > > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and humorous > > people in the > > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There were so > > > many > > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to address > > > them all. > > > It seems we have moved on. > > > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in the next > > > few days > > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and > > > professional obligations and my apologies for being slow. > > > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I went through > > > much > > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able to lead > > > an > > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good fortune and > > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling of > > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens my view. > > > > > > With gratitude to you all > > > Thanks and lots of love > > > Harsha > > > ______________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Its obvious that this list would not have voted with Papa swan and me, because of long standing friendships, but I would have felt better about the edict. ove, Alton , "ALTON A ALTON" <lostnfoundation> wrote: > > > Dear Bruce: > This is a very simple request and here is how it could work. Someone > wants someone else removed from this list. A vote from those on the > list is called for. Then the board can at least know what the list > wants before they kick someone off. It not that just fair play? Let > the board then decide that issue and what ever they decide it will > be fine with me. > > Love,Alton > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > To my knowledge, Alton, > > has never been > > purported to be "democratic." > > It reflects one person's > > vision (albeit a very gentle, > > flexible, and evolving one) > > of an Internet mailing list > > as a satsangha. That person > > chooses the moderators and > > they in turn act to maintain > > his vision if/when he is > > absent. When he's around, he > > sometimes consults with or > > informally polls the > > moderators > > > > When there is a perceived > > difficulty, the moderators > > put aside their own ideas > > and they deliberate as to how > > best to keep the list running > > in accordance with the current > > state of the founder's vision. > > > > Democracy is a wondrous > > political ideal, but in > > practice it can be very > > unwieldly, with differences in > > vision or opinion and ongoing > > faction-building frequently > > overwhelming the actual > > raison d'etre of the entity to > > be governed -- which in this > > case is spiritual fellowship > > without undue contention or > > personal attack. After > > viewing most of the movie > > "Gandhi" last night, I don't > > think a democratic approach > > would serve those ends very > > well -- do you? > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" > > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > > Our Dear Harsha: > > > > > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I know you > > > for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving. > > > > > > Harsha wrote: > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > > perspective > > > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone > > > should feel > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > judgement call. > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > responsibility > > > for the list environment. > > > > > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether > to > > > > > > remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". > It > > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule the > > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is > not > > > > > > this group democratic? > > > RSVP, > > > Love. > > > Alton > > > > > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...] > > > > > > > > My dear Harsha, > > > > > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. > > > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or > Jan ??? > > > > > > Well, > > > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I > > > forget. > > > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... > > > Harsha. > > > > *********************** > > > > > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous > comments. > > > > > > You > > > > really know how to get to somebody! > > > > > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. > Thanks > > > to > > > the > > > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, Andrewji, > > > Amandaji and > > > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around 20 > > > moderators). > > > > > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the list > > > can > > > be sure > > > > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, gifted, > > > talented, > > > > wise, and sensitive people. > > > > > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make Tony > part > > > > of the > > > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, we > love > > > > you > > > > and we are holding on to you! > > > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > > perspective > > > > which may have been different than the official stance. > Everyone > > > should feel > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > judgement call. > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > > > responsibility for the list environment. > > > > > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and humorous > > > people in the > > > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There were > so > > > > many > > > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to > address > > > > them all. > > > > It seems we have moved on. > > > > > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in the > next > > > > few days > > > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and > > > > professional obligations and my apologies for being slow. > > > > > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I went > through > > > > much > > > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able to > lead > > > > an > > > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good fortune > and > > > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling of > > > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens my view. > > > > > > > > With gratitude to you all > > > > Thanks and lots of love > > > > Harsha > > > > > ______________ > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether to > remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". It > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule the > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is not > this group democratic? If the group is democratic why would it be okay for the board to over rule the decision of the members? Personally, I think a group develops its own personality...complete with ego...spirit, emotions...the whole works. An entity and a metaphore of the collective energy in place.... I don't understand the value of a board. I don't understand the value of a collective vote. The power lies in the finger that can hit the "" button in any case, the rest is illusion and ego attachment to construct. On my list I have one rule in place. No spamming. (and even that is bendable if a member is informative and promoting a workshop or something) That's it. Other than that it is a free-for-all in the sandbox. Every play is an opportunity to grow...expand. An encounter with self through the mirror of the 'god on the outside'....a chance to look at ones own limitations and beliefs and attachments. If someone gets nasty...or bothersome...they just quite naturally go away eventually if the ego is unfed. And I have found that what is nasty to one...is the opposite to another...or every play in between. And I simply love it when buttons are pushed. There is life...and movement...the gunas fly! ) The whole of it can be quite joyful! Supression sucks.... Hugs and namaste...Syena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:30:55 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" <lostnfoundation writes: > > > Dear Bruce: > This is a very simple request and here is how it could work. Someone > wants someone else removed from this list. A vote from those on the > list is called for. Then the board can at least know what the list > wants before they kick someone off. It not that just fair play? Not necessarily. I reiterate, the owner/founder's vision is what the moderators have agreed to maintain. This is not asked of other list members, therefore their votes could easily be a matter of whose posts they like or don't like. E.g.: virtually all the moderators love Tony as a person and respect his way of expressing his commitment to his beliefs, but because of our commitment to the list operating as per Harsha's vision, we acted. If we had polled the membership, we could well have been influenced by someone's personal popularity rather than (somewhat) objectively looking at the inappropriate behavior and taking the appropriate measures. This is a case where, to paraphrase Shakespeare, the native hue of resolution is far too likely to be sicklied o'er by the pale cast of doubt, and I for one would not have conscience make cowards of us all! Iow, I don't want the moderators making decisions based on what may well amount to popularity polls, like politicians so often do, nor do I want this list to start resembling TV's Survivor," with people getting "voted off" for their perfectly respectable views rather than their errant on-list conduct. :-) > > Let the board then decide that issue and what ever they decide it will > be fine with me. That's what happened, without the awkward complications likely from taking a poll! > > Love,Alton > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > To my knowledge, Alton, > > has never been > > purported to be "democratic." > > It reflects one person's > > vision (albeit a very gentle, > > flexible, and evolving one) > > of an Internet mailing list > > as a satsangha. That person > > chooses the moderators and > > they in turn act to maintain > > his vision if/when he is > > absent. When he's around, he > > sometimes consults with or > > informally polls the > > moderators > > > > When there is a perceived > > difficulty, the moderators > > put aside their own ideas > > and they deliberate as to how > > best to keep the list running > > in accordance with the current > > state of the founder's vision. > > > > Democracy is a wondrous > > political ideal, but in > > practice it can be very > > unwieldly, with differences in > > vision or opinion and ongoing > > faction-building frequently > > overwhelming the actual > > raison d'etre of the entity to > > be governed -- which in this > > case is spiritual fellowship > > without undue contention or > > personal attack. After > > viewing most of the movie > > "Gandhi" last night, I don't > > think a democratic approach > > would serve those ends very > > well -- do you? > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" > > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > > Our Dear Harsha: > > > > > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I know you > > > > for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving. > > > > > > Harsha wrote: > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > > perspective > > > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone > > > > should feel > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > judgement call. > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > responsibility > > > for the list environment. > > > > > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether > > to > > > > > > remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". > > It > > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule > the > > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is > > not > > > > > > this group democratic? > > > RSVP, > > > Love. > > > Alton > > > > > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...] > > > > > > > > My dear Harsha, > > > > > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. > > > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or > Jan ??? > > > > > > Well, > > > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I > > > forget. > > > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... > > > > Harsha. > > > > *********************** > > > > > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous > comments. > > > > > > You > > > > really know how to get to somebody! > > > > > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. > Thanks > > > to > > > the > > > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, Andrewji, > > > > Amandaji and > > > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around 20 > > > > moderators). > > > > > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the > list > > > can > > > be sure > > > > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, > gifted, > > > talented, > > > > wise, and sensitive people. > > > > > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make Tony > > part > > > > of the > > > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, we > > love > > > > you > > > > and we are holding on to you! > > > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > > > perspective > > > > which may have been different than the official stance. > Everyone > > > should feel > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > judgement call. > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > > > responsibility for the list environment. > > > > > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and humorous > > > > people in the > > > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There > were > so > > > > many > > > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to > address > > > > them all. > > > > It seems we have moved on. > > > > > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in the > > next > > > > few days > > > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and > > > > professional obligations and my apologies for being slow. > > > > > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I went > through > > > > much > > > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able to > > lead > > > > an > > > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good fortune > > and > > > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling of > > > > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens my > view. > > > > > > > > With gratitude to you all > > > > Thanks and lots of love > > > > Harsha > > > > > ______________ > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of > the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is > always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know > the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee > relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from > within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Dear Syena: Nice post. Where were you when the battle broke out? Love, Alton , hot_syena wrote: > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether to > > remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". It > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule the > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is > not > > this group democratic? > > If the group is democratic why would it be okay for the board to over > rule the decision of the members? > > Personally, I think a group develops its own personality...complete > with ego...spirit, emotions...the whole works. An entity and a > metaphore of the collective energy in place.... > > I don't understand the value of a board. > > I don't understand the value of a collective vote. > > The power lies in the finger that can hit the "" button in > any case, the rest is illusion and ego attachment to construct. > > On my list I have one rule in place. No spamming. (and even that is > bendable if a member is informative and promoting a workshop or > something) That's it. Other than that it is a free-for-all in the > sandbox. > > Every play is an opportunity to grow...expand. An encounter with self > through the mirror of the 'god on the outside'....a chance to look at > ones own limitations and beliefs and attachments. > > If someone gets nasty...or bothersome...they just quite naturally go > away eventually if the ego is unfed. And I have found that what is > nasty to one...is the opposite to another...or every play in between. > > And I simply love it when buttons are pushed. There is life...and > movement...the gunas fly! ) The whole of it can be quite joyful! > > Supression sucks.... > > Hugs and namaste...Syena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Bruce wrote: "If we had polled the membership, we could well have been influenced by someone's personal popularity rather than (somewhat) objectively looking at the inappropriate behavior and taking the appropriate measures". That is my point. It was one very very powerful person who has had a long standing relationship with the "board" that convinced the board to eject poor Tony. If Wim is not personally popular, then Bill Clinton has no charisma. Love, Alton , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:30:55 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > > > > > Dear Bruce: > > This is a very simple request and here is how it could work. Someone > > wants someone else removed from this list. A vote from those on the > > list is called for. Then the board can at least know what the list > > wants before they kick someone off. It not that just fair play? > > Not necessarily. I reiterate, > the owner/founder's vision is > what the moderators have > agreed to maintain. This is > not asked of other list > members, therefore their votes > could easily be a matter of > whose posts they like or don't > like. > > E.g.: virtually all the > moderators love Tony as a > person and respect his way of > expressing his commitment to > his beliefs, but because of > our commitment to the list > operating as per Harsha's > vision, we acted. If we had > polled the membership, we > could well have been > influenced by someone's > personal popularity rather > than (somewhat) objectively > looking at the inappropriate > behavior and taking the > appropriate measures. > > This is a case where, to > paraphrase Shakespeare, the > native hue of resolution is > far too likely to be sicklied > o'er by the pale cast of doubt, > and I for one would not have > conscience make cowards of us > all! Iow, I don't want the > moderators making decisions > based on what may well amount > to popularity polls, like > politicians so often do, nor do > I want this list to start > resembling TV's Survivor," with > people getting "voted off" for > their perfectly respectable > views rather than their errant > on-list conduct. :-) > > > > > Let the board then decide that issue and what ever they decide it will > > > be fine with me. > > That's what happened, without > the awkward complications > likely from taking a poll! > > > > Love,Alton > > > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > > > To my knowledge, Alton, > > > has never been > > > purported to be "democratic." > > > It reflects one person's > > > vision (albeit a very gentle, > > > flexible, and evolving one) > > > of an Internet mailing list > > > as a satsangha. That person > > > chooses the moderators and > > > they in turn act to maintain > > > his vision if/when he is > > > absent. When he's around, he > > > sometimes consults with or > > > informally polls the > > > moderators > > > > > > When there is a perceived > > > difficulty, the moderators > > > put aside their own ideas > > > and they deliberate as to how > > > best to keep the list running > > > in accordance with the current > > > state of the founder's vision. > > > > > > Democracy is a wondrous > > > political ideal, but in > > > practice it can be very > > > unwieldly, with differences in > > > vision or opinion and ongoing > > > faction-building frequently > > > overwhelming the actual > > > raison d'etre of the entity to > > > be governed -- which in this > > > case is spiritual fellowship > > > without undue contention or > > > personal attack. After > > > viewing most of the movie > > > "Gandhi" last night, I don't > > > think a democratic approach > > > would serve those ends very > > > well -- do you? > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" > > > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > > > Our Dear Harsha: > > > > > > > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I know you > > > > > > for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving. > > > > > > > > Harsha wrote: > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > > > perspective > > > > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone > > > > > > should feel > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > > judgement call. > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > responsibility > > > > for the list environment. > > > > > > > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether > > > > to > > > > > > > > remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". > > > > It > > > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule > > the > > > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is > > > > not > > > > > > > > this group democratic? > > > > RSVP, > > > > Love. > > > > Alton > > > > > > > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...] > > > > > > > > > > My dear Harsha, > > > > > > > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha. > > > > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or > > Jan ??? > > > > > > > > Well, > > > > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I > > > > forget. > > > > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... > > > > > > Harsha. > > > > > *********************** > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous > > comments. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > really know how to get to somebody! > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. > > Thanks > > > > to > > > > the > > > > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, Andrewji, > > > > > > Amandaji and > > > > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around 20 > > > > > > moderators). > > > > > > > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the > > list > > > > can > > > > be sure > > > > > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, > > gifted, > > > > talented, > > > > > wise, and sensitive people. > > > > > > > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make Tony > > > > part > > > > > of the > > > > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, we > > > > love > > > > > you > > > > > and we are holding on to you! > > > > > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > > > > > perspective > > > > > which may have been different than the official stance. > > Everyone > > > > should feel > > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > > judgement call. > > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > > > > responsibility for the list environment. > > > > > > > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and humorous > > > > > > people in the > > > > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There > > were > > so > > > > > many > > > > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to > > address > > > > > them all. > > > > > It seems we have moved on. > > > > > > > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in the > > > > next > > > > > few days > > > > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and > > > > > professional obligations and my apologies for being slow. > > > > > > > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I went > > through > > > > > much > > > > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able to > > > > lead > > > > > an > > > > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good fortune > > > > and > > > > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling of > > > > > > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens my > > view. > > > > > > > > > > With gratitude to you all > > > > > Thanks and lots of love > > > > > Harsha > > > > > > > ______________ > > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of > > the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is > > always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know > > the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee > > relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from > > within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > ______________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Wim had *nothing whatsoever* to do with Tony's recent haitus, Alton. On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:54:53 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" <lostnfoundation writes: > > Bruce wrote: > > "If we had > polled the membership, we > could well have been > influenced by someone's > personal popularity rather > than (somewhat) objectively > looking at the inappropriate > behavior and taking the > appropriate measures". > > That is my point. It was one very very powerful person who has had a > > long standing relationship with the "board" that convinced the board > > to eject poor Tony. If Wim is not personally popular, then Bill > Clinton has no charisma. > > > Love, > Alton > > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:30:55 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" > > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > > > > > > > > Dear Bruce: > > > This is a very simple request and here is how it could work. > Someone > > > wants someone else removed from this list. A vote from those on > > the > > > list is called for. Then the board can at least know what the > list > > > wants before they kick someone off. It not that just fair play? > > > > > Not necessarily. I reiterate, > > the owner/founder's vision is > > what the moderators have > > agreed to maintain. This is > > not asked of other list > > members, therefore their votes > > could easily be a matter of > > whose posts they like or don't > > like. > > > > E.g.: virtually all the > > moderators love Tony as a > > person and respect his way of > > expressing his commitment to > > his beliefs, but because of > > our commitment to the list > > operating as per Harsha's > > vision, we acted. If we had > > polled the membership, we > > could well have been > > influenced by someone's > > personal popularity rather > > than (somewhat) objectively > > looking at the inappropriate > > behavior and taking the > > appropriate measures. > > > > This is a case where, to > > paraphrase Shakespeare, the > > native hue of resolution is > > far too likely to be sicklied > > o'er by the pale cast of doubt, > > and I for one would not have > > conscience make cowards of us > > all! Iow, I don't want the > > moderators making decisions > > based on what may well amount > > to popularity polls, like > > politicians so often do, nor do > > I want this list to start > > resembling TV's Survivor," with > > people getting "voted off" for > > their perfectly respectable > > views rather than their errant > > on-list conduct. :-) > > > > > > > > Let the board then decide that issue and what ever they decide > > it will > > > > > be fine with me. > > > > That's what happened, without > > the awkward complications > > likely from taking a poll! > > > > > > Love,Alton > > > > > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > > > > > To my knowledge, Alton, > > > > has never been > > > > purported to be "democratic." > > > > It reflects one person's > > > > vision (albeit a very gentle, > > > > flexible, and evolving one) > > > > of an Internet mailing list > > > > as a satsangha. That person > > > > chooses the moderators and > > > > they in turn act to maintain > > > > his vision if/when he is > > > > absent. When he's around, he > > > > sometimes consults with or > > > > informally polls the > > > > moderators > > > > > > > > When there is a perceived > > > > difficulty, the moderators > > > > put aside their own ideas > > > > and they deliberate as to how > > > > best to keep the list running > > > > in accordance with the current > > > > state of the founder's vision. > > > > > > > > Democracy is a wondrous > > > > political ideal, but in > > > > practice it can be very > > > > unwieldly, with differences in > > > > vision or opinion and ongoing > > > > faction-building frequently > > > > overwhelming the actual > > > > raison d'etre of the entity to > > > > be governed -- which in this > > > > case is spiritual fellowship > > > > without undue contention or > > > > personal attack. After > > > > viewing most of the movie > > > > "Gandhi" last night, I don't > > > > think a democratic approach > > > > would serve those ends very > > > > well -- do you? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON" > > > > <lostnfoundation> writes: > > > > > Our Dear Harsha: > > > > > > > > > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I > know > you > > > > > > > > for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving. > > > > > > > > > > Harsha wrote: > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed > their > > > > > perspective > > > > > which may have been different than the official stance. > Everyone > > > > > > > > should feel > > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > > > > judgement call. > > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > > responsibility > > > > > for the list environment. > > > > > > > > > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on > whether > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > remove someone that is irking members and not just > the "board". > > > > > > It > > > > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over > rule > > > the > > > > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or > another. > Is > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > this group democratic? > > > > > RSVP, > > > > > Love. > > > > > Alton > > > > > > > > > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...] > > > > > > > > > > > > My dear Harsha, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back > Harsha. > > > > > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or > > > > Jan ??? > > > > > > > > > > Well, > > > > > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, > > I > > > > > forget. > > > > > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... > you... > > > > > > > > Harsha. > > > > > > *********************** > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous > > > comments. > > > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > really know how to get to somebody! > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. > > > > Thanks > > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, > Andrewji, > > > > > > > > Amandaji and > > > > > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around > > 20 > > > > > > > > moderators). > > > > > > > > > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the > > > > list > > > > > can > > > > > be sure > > > > > > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, > > > gifted, > > > > > talented, > > > > > > wise, and sensitive people. > > > > > > > > > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make > Tony > > > > > > part > > > > > > of the > > > > > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, > > we > > > > > > love > > > > > > you > > > > > > and we are holding on to you! > > > > > > > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed > their > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > which may have been different than the official stance. > > > Everyone > > > > > should feel > > > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make > > a > > > > > judgement call. > > > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > > > > > responsibility for the list environment. > > > > > > > > > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and > humorous > > > > > > > > people in the > > > > > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There > > > > were > > > so > > > > > > many > > > > > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to > > > > address > > > > > > them all. > > > > > > It seems we have moved on. > > > > > > > > > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in > > the > > > > > > next > > > > > > few days > > > > > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and > > > > > > professional obligations and my apologies for being slow. > > > > > > > > > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I went > > > > through > > > > > > much > > > > > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able > > to > > > > > > lead > > > > > > an > > > > > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good > fortune > > > > > > and > > > > > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling > > of > > > > > > > > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens my > > > > view. > > > > > > > > > > > > With gratitude to you all > > > > > > Thanks and lots of love > > > > > > Harsha > > > > > http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Darnit Alton, apparently you must think I lied to you. I already told you twice here that this is not so..and Wim said he wrote to Harsha and Amanda, neither of which was here online to participate. It is your assumption that Wim had this influence and it is mistaken. Love, Gloria - ALTON A ALTON Saturday, July 14, 2001 4:54 PM Re: Hello Everyone Bruce wrote:"If we had polled the membership, we could well have been influenced by someone's personal popularity rather than (somewhat) objectively looking at the inappropriate behavior and taking the appropriate measures".That is my point. It was one very very powerful person who has had a long standing relationship with the "board" that convinced the board to eject poor Tony. If Wim is not personally popular, then Bill Clinton has no charisma.Love,Alton--- In , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:> > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:30:55 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON"> <lostnfoundation> writes:> > > > > > Dear Bruce:> > This is a very simple request and here is how it could work. Someone > > wants someone else removed from this list. A vote from those on the > > list is called for. Then the board can at least know what the list > > wants before they kick someone off. It not that just fair play? > > Not necessarily. I reiterate, > the owner/founder's vision is > what the moderators have > agreed to maintain. This is > not asked of other list > members, therefore their votes > could easily be a matter of > whose posts they like or don't > like.> > E.g.: virtually all the > moderators love Tony as a > person and respect his way of > expressing his commitment to > his beliefs, but because of > our commitment to the list > operating as per Harsha's > vision, we acted. If we had > polled the membership, we > could well have been > influenced by someone's > personal popularity rather > than (somewhat) objectively > looking at the inappropriate > behavior and taking the > appropriate measures.> > This is a case where, to > paraphrase Shakespeare, the > native hue of resolution is > far too likely to be sicklied > o'er by the pale cast of doubt, > and I for one would not have > conscience make cowards of us > all! Iow, I don't want the > moderators making decisions > based on what may well amount > to popularity polls, like > politicians so often do, nor do > I want this list to start > resembling TV's Survivor," with > people getting "voted off" for > their perfectly respectable > views rather than their errant > on-list conduct. :-)> > > > > Let the board then decide that issue and what ever they decide it will> > > be fine with me.> > That's what happened, without > the awkward complications > likely from taking a poll!> > > > Love,Alton> > > > --- In , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:> > > > > > To my knowledge, Alton, > > > has never been > > > purported to be "democratic." > > > It reflects one person's > > > vision (albeit a very gentle, > > > flexible, and evolving one) > > > of an Internet mailing list > > > as a satsangha. That person > > > chooses the moderators and > > > they in turn act to maintain > > > his vision if/when he is > > > absent. When he's around, he > > > sometimes consults with or > > > informally polls the > > > moderators> > > > > > When there is a perceived > > > difficulty, the moderators > > > put aside their own ideas > > > and they deliberate as to how > > > best to keep the list running > > > in accordance with the current > > > state of the founder's vision.> > > > > > Democracy is a wondrous > > > political ideal, but in > > > practice it can be very > > > unwieldly, with differences in > > > vision or opinion and ongoing > > > faction-building frequently > > > overwhelming the actual > > > raison d'etre of the entity to > > > be governed -- which in this > > > case is spiritual fellowship > > > without undue contention or > > > personal attack. After > > > viewing most of the movie > > > "Gandhi" last night, I don't > > > think a democratic approach > > > would serve those ends very > > > well -- do you?> > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON"> > > <lostnfoundation> writes:> > > > Our Dear Harsha:> > > > > > > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I know you > > > > > > for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving.> > > > > > > > Harsha wrote:> > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > > > perspective> > > > which may have been different than the official stance. Everyone > > > > > > should feel> > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > > judgement call.> > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > responsibility > > > > for the list environment.> > > > > > > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether > > > > to > > > > > > > > remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". > > > > It > > > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule > > the > > > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is > > > > not > > > > > > > > this group democratic?> > > > RSVP,> > > > Love.> > > > Alton> > > > > > > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...]> > > > > > > > > > My dear Harsha,> > > > > > > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back Harsha.> > > > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark or > > Jan ??? > > > > > > > > Well,> > > > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even worse, I > > > > forget.> > > > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call... you... > > > > > > Harsha.> > > > > ***********************> > > > > > > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and generous > > comments. > > > > > > > > You> > > > > really know how to get to somebody!> > > > > > > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri Ramana. > > Thanks > > > > to > > > > the> > > > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji, Andrewji, > > > > > > Amandaji and> > > > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have around 20 > > > > > > moderators).> > > > > > > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do, the > > list > > > > can > > > > be sure> > > > > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle, > > gifted, > > > > talented,> > > > > wise, and sensitive people.> > > > > > > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to make Tony > > > > part > > > > > of the> > > > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-). Hey, we > > > > love > > > > > you Tony> > > > > and we are holding on to you!> > > > > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed their > > > > > > perspective> > > > > which may have been different than the official stance. > > Everyone > > > > should feel> > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to make a > > > > judgement call.> > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of > > > > > responsibility for the list environment.> > > > > > > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and humorous > > > > > > people in the> > > > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here. There > > were > > so > > > > > many> > > > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult to > > address > > > > > them all.> > > > > It seems we have moved on.> > > > > > > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming in the > > > > next > > > > > few days> > > > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and > > > > > professional obligations and my apologies for being slow.> > > > > > > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I went > > through > > > > > much> > > > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was able to > > > > lead > > > > > an> > > > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good fortune > > > > and > > > > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the feeling of > > > > > > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens my > > view.> > > > > > > > > > With gratitude to you all> > > > > Thanks and lots of love> > > > > Harsha> > > > > > > ______________> > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!> > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!> > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:> > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.> > > > > > /join> > > > > > > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of > > the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is > > always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know > > the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee > > relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from > > within into It Self. Welcome all to a.> > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > ______________> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj./join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2001 Report Share Posted July 15, 2001 ALTON A ALTON [lostnfoundation] Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on whether to remove someone that is irking members and not just the "board". It would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over rule the decision of the members that wish to vote one way or another. Is not this group democratic? RSVP, Love. Alton Dear Alton, I appreciate your concern for fairness and justice. All the moderators do as well. The moderators of the Sangha are long time members and are gentle, kind, sensitive, and wonderful people. If the need arises (which is rare), the moderators carefully discuss the situation and reflect on it and give it time to resolve itself before engaging in any action. Moderation is not the rule but the exception here. It has rarely been used over the last two and a half years. We try to adapt however to changing circumstances as best as we can and keep the interests of all the list members in mind. This is a spiritual fellowship and the list description attempts to convey the spirit of the Sangha. We don't really concern ourselves with being or not being a democratic institution. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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