I'm a tad irritated with the loooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnng attachments.

[Guest guest]

I was wondering if for the sake of and in the name

of....simplicity...thoughtfulness...etc...and regard for filled e-

boxes...if WE could ALL delete extraneous Messages that go on and on

and on and on and on and on and on....with every reply...repeated and

repeated and repeated ......ya think? Just clip and paste a bit so we

know the thread referred to? I'm feeling a bit

bulimic....Hugs....Syena.

 

 

 

 

, Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

>

> Wim had *nothing whatsoever*

> to do with Tony's recent

> haitus, Alton.

>

> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:54:53 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON"

> <lostnfoundation> writes:

> >

> > Bruce wrote:

> >

> > "If we had

> > polled the membership, we

> > could well have been

> > influenced by someone's

> > personal popularity rather

> > than (somewhat) objectively

> > looking at the inappropriate

> > behavior and taking the

> > appropriate measures".

> >

> > That is my point. It was one very very powerful person who has

had a

> >

> > long standing relationship with the "board" that convinced the

board

> >

> > to eject poor Tony. If Wim is not personally popular, then Bill

> > Clinton has no charisma.

> >

> >

> > Love,

> > Alton

> >

> >

> > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> > >

> > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:30:55 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON"

> > > <lostnfoundation> writes:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bruce:

> > > > This is a very simple request and here is how it could work.

> > Someone

> > > > wants someone else removed from this list. A vote from those

on

> >

> > the

> > > > list is called for. Then the board can at least know what the

> > list

> > > > wants before they kick someone off. It not that just fair

play?

> >

> > >

> > > Not necessarily. I reiterate,

> > > the owner/founder's vision is

> > > what the moderators have

> > > agreed to maintain. This is

> > > not asked of other list

> > > members, therefore their votes

> > > could easily be a matter of

> > > whose posts they like or don't

> > > like.

> > >

> > > E.g.: virtually all the

> > > moderators love Tony as a

> > > person and respect his way of

> > > expressing his commitment to

> > > his beliefs, but because of

> > > our commitment to the list

> > > operating as per Harsha's

> > > vision, we acted. If we had

> > > polled the membership, we

> > > could well have been

> > > influenced by someone's

> > > personal popularity rather

> > > than (somewhat) objectively

> > > looking at the inappropriate

> > > behavior and taking the

> > > appropriate measures.

> > >

> > > This is a case where, to

> > > paraphrase Shakespeare, the

> > > native hue of resolution is

> > > far too likely to be sicklied

> > > o'er by the pale cast of doubt,

> > > and I for one would not have

> > > conscience make cowards of us

> > > all! Iow, I don't want the

> > > moderators making decisions

> > > based on what may well amount

> > > to popularity polls, like

> > > politicians so often do, nor do

> > > I want this list to start

> > > resembling TV's Survivor," with

> > > people getting "voted off" for

> > > their perfectly respectable

> > > views rather than their errant

> > > on-list conduct. :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Let the board then decide that issue and what ever they

decide

> >

> > it will

> > >

> > > > be fine with me.

> > >

> > > That's what happened, without

> > > the awkward complications

> > > likely from taking a poll!

> > > >

> > > > Love,Alton

> > > >

> > > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > To my knowledge, Alton,

> > > > > has never been

> > > > > purported to be "democratic."

> > > > > It reflects one person's

> > > > > vision (albeit a very gentle,

> > > > > flexible, and evolving one)

> > > > > of an Internet mailing list

> > > > > as a satsangha. That person

> > > > > chooses the moderators and

> > > > > they in turn act to maintain

> > > > > his vision if/when he is

> > > > > absent. When he's around, he

> > > > > sometimes consults with or

> > > > > informally polls the

> > > > > moderators

> > > > >

> > > > > When there is a perceived

> > > > > difficulty, the moderators

> > > > > put aside their own ideas

> > > > > and they deliberate as to how

> > > > > best to keep the list running

> > > > > in accordance with the current

> > > > > state of the founder's vision.

> > > > >

> > > > > Democracy is a wondrous

> > > > > political ideal, but in

> > > > > practice it can be very

> > > > > unwieldly, with differences in

> > > > > vision or opinion and ongoing

> > > > > faction-building frequently

> > > > > overwhelming the actual

> > > > > raison d'etre of the entity to

> > > > > be governed -- which in this

> > > > > case is spiritual fellowship

> > > > > without undue contention or

> > > > > personal attack. After

> > > > > viewing most of the movie

> > > > > "Gandhi" last night, I don't

> > > > > think a democratic approach

> > > > > would serve those ends very

> > > > > well -- do you?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON"

> > > > > <lostnfoundation> writes:

> > > > > > Our Dear Harsha:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being. I

> > know

> > you

> > > >

> > > > > > for a short time and can see that you are fair and loving.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Harsha wrote:

> > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others expressed

> > their

> > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > which may have been different than the official stance.

> > Everyone

> > > >

> > > > > > should feel

> > > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to

make a

> >

> > > > > > judgement call.

> > > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of

> > > > responsibility

> > > > > > for the list environment.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote on

> > whether

> > > >

> > > > to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > remove someone that is irking members and not just

> > the "board".

> > > >

> > > > It

> > > > > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to over

> > rule

> > > > the

> > > > > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or

> > another.

> > Is

> > > >

> > > > not

> > > > > >

> > > > > > this group democratic?

> > > > > > RSVP,

> > > > > > Love.

> > > > > > Alton

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...>

> > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My dear Harsha,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back

> > Harsha.

> > > > > > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time, Mark

or

> >

> > > > Jan ???

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well,

> > > > > > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even

worse,

> >

> > I

> > > > > > forget.

> > > > > > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my call...

> > you...

> > > >

> > > > > > Harsha.

> > > > > > > ***********************

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and

generous

> > > > comments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You

> > > > > > > really know how to get to somebody!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri

Ramana.

> >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji,

> > Andrewji,

> > > >

> > > > > > Amandaji and

> > > > > > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have

around

> >

> > 20

> > > >

> > > > > > moderators).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we do,

the

> >

> > > > list

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > be sure

> > > > > > > that it is usually by consensus among some very gentle,

> > > > gifted,

> > > > > > talented,

> > > > > > > wise, and sensitive people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to

make

> > Tony

> > > >

> > > > part

> > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-).

Hey,

> >

> > we

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > > > > > you > > > > > > > and we are holding on to you!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others

expressed

> > their

> > > >

> > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > which may have been different than the official stance.

> > > > Everyone

> > > > > > should feel

> > > > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to

make

> >

> > a

> > > > > > judgement call.

> > > > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of

> > > > > > > responsibility for the list environment.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and

> > humorous

> > > >

> > > > > > people in the

> > > > > > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here.

There

> >

> > > > were

> > > > so

> > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be difficult

to

> >

> > > > address

> > > > > > > them all.

> > > > > > > It seems we have moved on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be upcoming

in

> >

> > the

> > > >

> > > > next

> > > > > > > few days

> > > > > > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal and

> > > > > > > professional obligations and my apologies for being

slow.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I

went

> >

> > > > through

> > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was

able

> >

> > to

> > > >

> > > > lead

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my good

> > fortune

> > > >

> > > > and

> > > > > > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the

feeling

> >

> > of

> > > >

> > > > > > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and brightens

my

> >

> > > > view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > With gratitude to you all

> > > > > > > Thanks and lots of love

> > > > > > > Harsha

> > > > > >

>

>

> http://come.to/realization

> http://www.atman.net/realization

> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

> ______________

> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

[Guest guest]

OK I apologize to Gloria and the whole list.

Love,

Alton

 

, hot_syena wrote:

> I was wondering if for the sake of and in the name

> of....simplicity...thoughtfulness...etc...and regard for filled e-

> boxes...if WE could ALL delete extraneous Messages that go on and

on

> and on and on and on and on and on....with every reply...repeated

and

> repeated and repeated ......ya think? Just clip and paste a bit so

we

> know the thread referred to? I'm feeling a bit

> bulimic....Hugs....Syena.

>

>

>

>

> , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> >

> > Wim had *nothing whatsoever*

> > to do with Tony's recent

> > haitus, Alton.

> >

> > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:54:53 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON"

> > <lostnfoundation> writes:

> > >

> > > Bruce wrote:

> > >

> > > "If we had

> > > polled the membership, we

> > > could well have been

> > > influenced by someone's

> > > personal popularity rather

> > > than (somewhat) objectively

> > > looking at the inappropriate

> > > behavior and taking the

> > > appropriate measures".

> > >

> > > That is my point. It was one very very powerful person who has

> had a

> > >

> > > long standing relationship with the "board" that convinced the

> board

> > >

> > > to eject poor Tony. If Wim is not personally popular, then Bill

> > > Clinton has no charisma.

> > >

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > Alton

> > >

> > >

> > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:30:55 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON"

> > > > <lostnfoundation> writes:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bruce:

> > > > > This is a very simple request and here is how it could

work.

> > > Someone

> > > > > wants someone else removed from this list. A vote from

those

> on

> > >

> > > the

> > > > > list is called for. Then the board can at least know what

the

> > > list

> > > > > wants before they kick someone off. It not that just fair

> play?

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Not necessarily. I reiterate,

> > > > the owner/founder's vision is

> > > > what the moderators have

> > > > agreed to maintain. This is

> > > > not asked of other list

> > > > members, therefore their votes

> > > > could easily be a matter of

> > > > whose posts they like or don't

> > > > like.

> > > >

> > > > E.g.: virtually all the

> > > > moderators love Tony as a

> > > > person and respect his way of

> > > > expressing his commitment to

> > > > his beliefs, but because of

> > > > our commitment to the list

> > > > operating as per Harsha's

> > > > vision, we acted. If we had

> > > > polled the membership, we

> > > > could well have been

> > > > influenced by someone's

> > > > personal popularity rather

> > > > than (somewhat) objectively

> > > > looking at the inappropriate

> > > > behavior and taking the

> > > > appropriate measures.

> > > >

> > > > This is a case where, to

> > > > paraphrase Shakespeare, the

> > > > native hue of resolution is

> > > > far too likely to be sicklied

> > > > o'er by the pale cast of doubt,

> > > > and I for one would not have

> > > > conscience make cowards of us

> > > > all! Iow, I don't want the

> > > > moderators making decisions

> > > > based on what may well amount

> > > > to popularity polls, like

> > > > politicians so often do, nor do

> > > > I want this list to start

> > > > resembling TV's Survivor," with

> > > > people getting "voted off" for

> > > > their perfectly respectable

> > > > views rather than their errant

> > > > on-list conduct. :-)

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Let the board then decide that issue and what ever they

> decide

> > >

> > > it will

> > > >

> > > > > be fine with me.

> > > >

> > > > That's what happened, without

> > > > the awkward complications

> > > > likely from taking a poll!

> > > > >

> > > > > Love,Alton

> > > > >

> > > > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...>

wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To my knowledge, Alton,

> > > > > > has never been

> > > > > > purported to be "democratic."

> > > > > > It reflects one person's

> > > > > > vision (albeit a very gentle,

> > > > > > flexible, and evolving one)

> > > > > > of an Internet mailing list

> > > > > > as a satsangha. That person

> > > > > > chooses the moderators and

> > > > > > they in turn act to maintain

> > > > > > his vision if/when he is

> > > > > > absent. When he's around, he

> > > > > > sometimes consults with or

> > > > > > informally polls the

> > > > > > moderators

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When there is a perceived

> > > > > > difficulty, the moderators

> > > > > > put aside their own ideas

> > > > > > and they deliberate as to how

> > > > > > best to keep the list running

> > > > > > in accordance with the current

> > > > > > state of the founder's vision.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Democracy is a wondrous

> > > > > > political ideal, but in

> > > > > > practice it can be very

> > > > > > unwieldly, with differences in

> > > > > > vision or opinion and ongoing

> > > > > > faction-building frequently

> > > > > > overwhelming the actual

> > > > > > raison d'etre of the entity to

> > > > > > be governed -- which in this

> > > > > > case is spiritual fellowship

> > > > > > without undue contention or

> > > > > > personal attack. After

> > > > > > viewing most of the movie

> > > > > > "Gandhi" last night, I don't

> > > > > > think a democratic approach

> > > > > > would serve those ends very

> > > > > > well -- do you?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:03:35 -0000 "ALTON A ALTON"

> > > > > > <lostnfoundation> writes:

> > > > > > > Our Dear Harsha:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Others here evidentally know you as a very high being.

I

> > > know

> > > you

> > > > >

> > > > > > > for a short time and can see that you are fair and

loving.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Harsha wrote:

> > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others

expressed

> > > their

> > > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > which may have been different than the official stance.

> > > Everyone

> > > > >

> > > > > > > should feel

> > > > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to

> make a

> > >

> > > > > > > judgement call.

> > > > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of

> > > > > responsibility

> > > > > > > for the list environment.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Alton asks that all of the members should have a vote

on

> > > whether

> > > > >

> > > > > to

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > remove someone that is irking members and not just

> > > the "board".

> > > > >

> > > > > It

> > > > > > > would be ok with me if the "board" had the power to

over

> > > rule

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > decision of the members that wish to vote one way or

> > > another.

> > > Is

> > > > >

> > > > > not

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > this group democratic?

> > > > > > > RSVP,

> > > > > > > Love.

> > > > > > > Alton

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Wim Borsboom [wim@a...]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My dear Harsha,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Just yesterday, I really felt you needed to come back

> > > Harsha.

> > > > > > > > I'm not sure who calls you a hoodlum all the time,

Mark

> or

> > >

> > > > > Jan ???

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well,

> > > > > > > > I finally called you a hoodlum too... Probably even

> worse,

> > >

> > > I

> > > > > > > forget.

> > > > > > > > But... lo and behold... And who answered to my

call...

> > > you...

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Harsha.

> > > > > > > > ***********************

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks Wimji for your warm welcome and kind and

> generous

> > > > > comments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You

> > > > > > > > really know how to get to somebody!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks Vioricaji for your continuing posts on Sri

> Ramana.

> > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > great moderators Gregji, Gloriaji, Bruceji, Jamesji,

> > > Andrewji,

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Amandaji and

> > > > > > > > others whose silent influence we feel (yes, we have

> around

> > >

> > > 20

> > > > >

> > > > > > > moderators).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We rarely have to moderate on this list. But if we

do,

> the

> > >

> > > > > list

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > be sure

> > > > > > > > that it is usually by consensus among some very

gentle,

> > > > > gifted,

> > > > > > > talented,

> > > > > > > > wise, and sensitive people.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There was even a suggestion among the moderators to

> make

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > part

> > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > moderating team! That is how open minded we are! :-).

> Hey,

> > >

> > > we

> > > > >

> > > > > love

> > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > and we are holding on to you!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am glad Papa Swan, Alton, Viorica and others

> expressed

> > > their

> > > > >

> > > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > which may have been different than the official

stance.

> > > > > Everyone

> > > > > > > should feel

> > > > > > > > free to speak their mind. Moderators at times have to

> make

> > >

> > > a

> > > > > > > judgement call.

> > > > > > > > We respect their decision as it stems from a sense of

> > > > > > > > responsibility for the list environment.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We are fortunate in having many wonderful, wise, and

> > > humorous

> > > > >

> > > > > > > people in the

> > > > > > > > satsang that it makes it a pleasure to commune here.

> There

> > >

> > > > > were

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > posts in the last 3-4 weeks that it would be

difficult

> to

> > >

> > > > > address

> > > > > > > > them all.

> > > > > > > > It seems we have moved on.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My "Thanks and Welcome" post will probably be

upcoming

> in

> > >

> > > the

> > > > >

> > > > > next

> > > > > > > > few days

> > > > > > > > Wim! This summer is busier than usual with personal

and

> > > > > > > > professional obligations and my apologies for being

> slow.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > During my teen years and for some years after that, I

> went

> > >

> > > > > through

> > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > suffering. At that time I used to pray that if I was

> able

> > >

> > > to

> > > > >

> > > > > lead

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > average and ordinary life, I would consider it my

good

> > > fortune

> > > > >

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > be grateful. Now, as I muddle through my days, the

> feeling

> > >

> > > of

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > fellowship and friendship warms my heart and

brightens

> my

> > >

> > > > > view.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With gratitude to you all

> > > > > > > > Thanks and lots of love

> > > > > > > > Harsha

> > > > > > >

> >

> >

> > http://come.to/realization

> > http://www.atman.net/realization

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[Guest guest]

Alton...you goof...no apology required or necessary...) hugs..and

L. Syena.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Alton,

 

Just one of the things I love about you is knowing that you would

speak up if you perceived any injustice. Maybe we can let go of this

and move on, Tony seems to have survived it okay and is back with us.

 

 

Syena,you are so right about the snipping! Something I nag about too

once in a while. Also, that post you wrote to Alton about his

grandson was very thoughtful and right on...I read it late, as I was

gone then.

 

New people bring a lot of new life to the list. Glad you are both here, and papa swan too.

 

Love, GloriaOK I apologize to Gloria and the whole list.Love,Alton---

In , hot_syena wrote:> I was wondering if for

the sake of and in the name >

of....simplicity...thoughtfulness...etc...and regard for filled e->

boxes...if WE could ALL delete extraneous Messages that go on and on

[Guest guest]

, "Gloria Lee" <glee@i...> wrote:

>

> New people bring a lot of new life to the list. Glad you are both

here, and papa swan too.

>

> Love, Gloria

*****************

Hey..thanks for the welcome! ) And I agree...Alton is a gem, as is

Papa....it's a nice tossed salad of flavors here.

 

Namaste..S.