Guest guest Posted July 30, 2001 Report Share Posted July 30, 2001 Namaste Sri Murthyji, You raise an interesting question about acquiring and working out karmas in different states of consciousness. Here is another perspective for your consideration, although it does not address all the points you make. I will pass this on to as well. Sages tell us that karmas of different states of consciousness can indeed overlap. Therefore it may be possible to acquire the karma in one state and work it out in another state of consciousness. Sri Ramana helping his mother attain Moksha by making her go through future experiences (which were stored in her subtle body) at her passing away is an example of exhausting karmas acquired in one state in a different and more subtle state. Yogic psychology indicates that karmas acquired in gross states can be worked out or affected in more subtle states. This is why the Shastras emphasize making the mind or the intellect subtle. Divine visions and prophetic dreams spring up from subtler levels of consciousness. The Self on which all subtle and gross states depend, when realized makes all karmas moot. Sri Ramana used to say that if a husband has 3 wives and the husband dies, all the wives become widows simultaneously. Similarly, upon Self-Realization, all three types of karmas acquired in gross or subtle states become undermined simultaneously. The general practical rule of thumb that can be suggested in vyavahArika (in the field of relativity) based on experience and testimony of yogis is that karma acquired in grosser states can be worked out to some extent or a large extent in subtle states. Namaste and love to all Harsha Gummuluru Murthy [gmurthy] Monday, July 30, 2001 9:23 AM advaitin Re: wake-up and dream- states On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gasusima wrote: > How are the prophetic dreams accounted for when they directly cause one to act in the wake-up > state? > > Gummuluru Murthy wrote: > > > But, at the same time, both (dream-state and wake-up state) are > > not independent. Both affect the same embodied jIvA. Yet, the > > karma of one state is not carried into the other and also, the > > effects of these two states are not carried into the deep-sleep > > state. So, in effect then, karma does not cross the boundary > > from one state to the other. > > namaste shri Gasusima-ji, I meant to respond to your post earlier but somehow, inadvertantly, that was put aside. My apologies for the late picking up of the thread. You say how about prophetic dreams. Even there, as I understand, karma-phala (the vAsanA-s acquired) will not and cannot transcend the state. There may be immediate and fleeting transcending, for example, the perspiration felt in the wake-up state soon after seeing a dream-tiger in the dream state. I am talking of more-lasting karma-phala (like the sin associated with a murder committed in the dream or a puNya associated with visiting KAshi in a dream). That is, the vAsanA-s acquired in the dream-state are for the subtle-body of the dream-state only and the vAsanA-s acquired in the wake-up state are for the subtle body of the wake-up state only. I am not saying the subtle body is different in the two states, but I am saying the karma-phala of one state stays in that state only. Others may not agree with this assessment, but I would like to see a solid basis or reference for thinking contrary. If that (the inability of karma-phala to transcend or conduit through a different state) were so, I am saying: The general concept in vyavahArika is: the subtle body, when it discards the physical body (at the time of physical death), carries forward its karma-phala, and according to its karma-phala, acquires a new physical body. My question is: what karma-phala are we talking about? Is it the karma-phala of the wake-up state? If so why that importance to the wake-up state? If karma-phala does not transcend a state (from wake-to dream or deep-sleep), how would it transcend the discarding of a physical body? I am not saying I doubt the validity of the karma theory in vyavahArika, but seeking clarification on some doubts how it functions. Regards Gummuluru Murthy ---- Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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