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Saivism vs Vedanta

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On 8/2/01 at 8:41 AM EBlackstead (AT) cs (DOT) com wrote: hamsayogini & Friends,

The notion that this relative world is illusion has it's roots in

ancient Vedic and Buddhistic thought, where it is posited that only

that which "does not or can not change" is "real". Hence, only the

Absolute is real, and everything else is illusion. This notion has

been further reinforced by Hindu sages and the Buddha's observation

that from the Realised state, this life appears to be as a dream.

Hamsa Yogini, I, too, am a Saivite, and believe as you do that Maya

is Yogamaya, the creative power behind this relative world. It seems

to me that this is a much better conception of reality to hold to in

the modern world. It is quite significant that Vedic and Buddhist

Absolutism gave birth to sadhana's that are so radical from a modern

perspective as to seem impossible of accomplishment. Consider the

sadhana of Ramakrishna's vedantic guru, Totapuri. It is unimaginable

that someone could adhere to such a strict unyielding system of

practices outside of the traditional context of rural India. I'm glad

to read your contributions to this list. yours in the bonds, eric A

funny subject - why label life as dream or illusion? Not only did

such labels raise

suspicion about the labeler as unable to cope with life "as is", such labeling could be

interpreted as 'the' supreme misunderstanding...

Not only isn't there a borderline between spiritual and worldly, it could be argued

that nonduality (unable to discriminate between 'i' and 'you') is a necessity, to live

a happy life that is sustainable as long as the sun is a white dwarf...

So what if living a "natural" life (love, marriage, kids, friends) the "proper" way would

"deliver" nonduality not only as a "boon" to continue life & spread the good news but

would "deliver" the "beyond love & compassion" (Nirguna Brahman) when the

mind-body's term is finished? What would that mean to renunciators & cave-dwellers?

Rare curiosities? Yes!!!

That's no longer my cup of tea, dear friends :)

Jan

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Dear Jan,

color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext">

You wrote:

color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext">

… why

label life as dream or illusion?

Not only did such labels raise

suspicion about the labeler as

unable to cope with life "as is",

such labeling could be interpreted as

'the' supreme misunderstanding...

(my

italics)

Jan, you

are so right on. Thank you for stating this so succinctly…

Jan:

Not

only isn't there a borderline

between spiritual and worldly,

it could be argued that nonduality

(unable to discriminate between 'i' and 'you')

is a necessity, to live a happy life that is

sustainable as long as the sun is a white dwarf...

color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext">

No

discrimination… for sure, no “between

Arial;color:#0F0F0F;font-style:italic">

yes"> 'i' and 'you' “at

all…

“Between,”

be-tween, from Middle English “be-twene”, preposition & adverb,

from Old English be- + two

12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-family:

Arial;mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings">à

10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">betwEonum, (dative plural)

Jan:

So

what if living a "natural" life (love, marriage, kids, friends) the

"proper" way

would "deliver" nonduality not only as a "boon" to continue

life & spread the good news

but would "deliver" the "beyond love & compassion"

(Nirguna Brahman)

when the mind-body's term is finished?

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

Yes, neat!

And may I suggest that we can even dispense with the “what if?

When fully

immersed in in-discriminate unity of human love, the steady state of

unconditional blissful being is realized. Onlookers and observers alike can

recognize this condition-less state as a ‘steady

and irreversible state of eternal bliss, ecstasy and glory.’ This state

is actually our original innate state of being… however grand those words may

sound and however masked by the social, moral and religious persona that state may

seem to be. The ‘person’ really is no more than a

“respondent” to social, legal,

moral and religious requirements and prerequisites.

line-break">

That chimera of responsiveness to those requirements

and prerequisites, the illusions of threats and promises, that chimera only

veils our original state of bliss. While under duress, we humans consider these

threats and promises as though they are more real than that our original and

innate state of blissful selves. We came to believe that we could be

manipulated to live in servitude with only conditional possibilities of freedom

and happiness. But, our innate state of blissful selfhood has never

left us, although it may seem to lie

dormant for as long as it is un-seen, un-acknowledged, un-re-cognized and even

denied. When we re-integrate ourselves, the recovery of our original blissful being

is called realization. The answer to “Who Am I?” The reality of who we are

authentically.

color:#0F0F0F">That's no longer my cup of tea, dear friends :)

Jan and I will

have hot chocolate instead…

Love, Wim

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