Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Namaste All, It is real whilst one is in it. or similar. The unreality at first observation is that it changes, therefore cannot be real. One has to deal with it but one doesn't have to believe in it. Yes it is a projection of the power of maya, but she is an illusion ultimately also. All these variances are for only one purpose.....concentration and one pointedness. Whatever system you use is ok if it leads to 'awakening'. IMO. Om Namah Sivaya....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Dear Tony, You wrote: Sankara said "World' is real whilst one is in it. or similar. The unreality at first observation is that it changes, therefore cannot be real. So, you think that what you understood is what he meant? Are you in the world? Are you reading this? Can you at this very moment not be in it? Does the expression "The world is real whilst one is in it" apply to you? One has to deal with it but one doesn't have to believe in it. One is not born with "disbelieve." Disbelieve is acquired through and run by illusion and delusion. People who delude or suffer from delusion or illusion suffer from a mental dysfunction. It is a very common dysfunction... People who believe, suffer from it...people who disbelieve suffer from it. The world does not require belief, the world IS, whether you believe it or not. What a waste of energy to uphold beliefs or disbeliefs so systematically! Most humans have been deluded... under a spell... The spell includes verbal commands that they cannot get free of it, such commands always end with something similar to "you better believe it!" When you have cut your finger does "not believing in the cut" do anything? Good thing your body is real and does not follow up on your fallacious belief in belief. Yes it is a projection of the power of maya, but she is an illusion ultimately also. Just stop thinking that "your understanding of reality" matches reality, Tony. Your mind lives in illusion, your body lives in this world "whilst in it." It would be good to start synchronizing your "mental self" with your body. Coincide with yourself. All these variances are for only one purpose.....concentration and one pointedness. Whatever system you use is ok if it leads to 'awakening'. No system needed, stop believing in what you so systematically believe in... Love, Wim /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release 7/18/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release 7/18/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Dear Tony, It would be so amazing to hear you speak from your Heart. I have heard what you have studied and assimilated into your brain, but have a longing to hear from YOU. What is this Divine Expression called Tony? What does IT have to say? Anything at all? Sing us the song of your Heart! This is the true Inspiration. Love, Kheyala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 , "Kheyala" <kheyala@n...> wrote: > > Dear Tony, > It would be so amazing to hear you speak from your Heart. > I have heard what you have studied and assimilated into your brain, but have a longing to hear from YOU. > What is this Divine Expression called Tony? What does IT have to say? Anything at all? > Sing us the song of your Heart! > This is the true Inspiration. > > Love, > Kheyala Namaste Kheyala, I went through a stage of sentimentalism and emotionalism, but it was a distraction and unreal. Daya or compassion has nothing to do with that or tears or similar. The Heart so called in humans is really full of pollyanna emotions and not much action, mostly a self indulgence. The true Heart is the the Bliss of Saguna and even this is unreal. However these are just different paths, I am not on the path of Bhakti which evokes such emotions. Anything that can be experienced is false, why worry about it or concern oneself with it, unless it leads to one pointedness? Hearing from my human ego heart is just a waste. This doesn't mean I don't have Daya or compassion.......ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 - Tony O'Clery Friday, August 03, 2001 1:19 PM Re: Sankara said"World' , "Kheyala" <kheyala@n...> wrote:> > Dear Tony,> It would be so amazing to hear you speak from your Heart.> I have heard what you have studied and assimilated into your brain, but have a longing to hear from YOU.> What is this Divine Expression called Tony? What does IT have to say? Anything at all?> Sing us the song of your Heart!> This is the true Inspiration.> > Love,> KheyalaNamaste Kheyala,I went through a stage of sentimentalism and emotionalism, but it was a distraction and unreal. Daya or compassion has nothing to do with that or tears or similar. The Heart so called in humans is really full of pollyanna emotions and not much action, mostly a self indulgence.The true Heart is the the Bliss of Saguna and even this is unreal. However these are just different paths, I am not on the path of Bhakti which evokes such emotions.Anything that can be experienced is false, why worry about it or concern oneself with it, unless it leads to one pointedness?Hearing from my human ego heart is just a waste. This doesn't mean I don't have Daya or compassion.......ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 On 8/3/01 at 3:37 PM Tony O'Clery wrote: ºNamaste All, º ºIt is real whilst one is in it. or similar. The unreality at first ºobservation is that it changes, therefore cannot be real. Would it make a difference regarding behavior? º ºOne has to deal with it but one doesn't have to believe in it. Nothing is obliged - that's an implication of "freedom". So finding that out (when forgotten) can't be an obligation either. º ºYes it is a projection of the power of maya, but she is an illusion ºultimately also. The theory that whatever is perceived is an illusion could be immensely popular amongst inmates - especially when sentenced to death... When life is classified as such, for some that is seen a confession as to be dysfunctional... Even when sentient life, due to the preponderance of pain, is defined as suffering in its entirety (as the Buddha did), that still means sentient life can be functional. º ºAll these variances are for only one purpose.....concentration and one ºpointedness. Whatever system you use is ok if it leads to 'awakening'. º ºIMO. Om Namah Sivaya....Tony. Aren't those but preliminary exercises? The issue is unconditional self-surrender - easy for instance for a youth with little conditioning or a mother with knowledge of sacrificing herself for a child - next to impossible when 40+ with "awakening" as an item on a list, competing with other wishes... Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 , "jb" <janb@a...> wrote > > Aren't those but preliminary exercises? The issue is unconditional self-surrender - > easy for instance for a youth with little conditioning or a mother with knowledge of > sacrificing herself for a child - next to impossible when 40+ with "awakening" as Namaste Jan, IMO we are just using language to communicate that's all. The conditioning of a one year old child goes back umpteen lifetimes and so is just as subconsciously conditioned as a 40+. Surrender means dropping the idea of ego completely an item on a list, competing with other wishes...Yes we have to function in the world to drop it so to speak. This doesn't mean we have to believe it is real ultimately. Realisation cannot take place IMO until every sensation and samskara has been purified or neutralised, no matter what we call surrender or what we believe. Just changing our language won't make it so, for we come back to vndism again. This is the effect of Vipassana or Ramana's method it penetrates to the rising of the thought sensation, and eliminates the ego. I am totally liberated intellectually but how come I haven't achieved Moksha? The above is the answer......vasanas and samskaras. Prisoners on death row could say it is all illusion, but when I say it is illusion I mean it is a projected changing kaleidasope and therefor e unreal. For something that changes cannot be real!! ONS.........Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 On 8/4/01 at 12:16 AM Tony O'Clery wrote: º, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote º º º> º> Aren't those but preliminary exercises? The issue is unconditional ºself-surrender - º> easy for instance for a youth with little conditioning or a mother ºwith knowledge of º> sacrificing herself for a child - next to impossible when 40+ with º"awakening" as º ºNamaste Jan, º ºIMO we are just using language to communicate that's all. The ºconditioning of a one year old child goes back umpteen lifetimes and ºso is just as subconsciously conditioned as a 40+. That's what you want to believe - somehow sounds like excuse So called "primitives" had far less conditioning than present day "civilized" man. Oh - the formation of tendencies did cost energy but initially, "burning them away" will cost energy too - and in youth, when healthy, energy is plenty... Re-cognizing "who you are" is free lunch but "burning away tendencies", a matter of energy... º ºSurrender means dropping the idea of ego completely an item on a list, ºcompeting with other wishes...Yes we have to function in the world to ºdrop it so to speak. This doesn't mean we have to believe it is real ºultimately. Unconditional surrender means "no list". º ºRealisation cannot take place IMO until every sensation and samskara ºhas been purified or neutralised, no matter what we call surrender or ºwhat we believe. Just changing our language won't make it so, for we ºcome back to vndism again. This is the effect of Vipassana or Ramana's ºmethod it penetrates to the rising of the thought sensation, and ºeliminates the ego. Judging tendencies when admitting to be driven by them - judging what is "purified" and what isn't... Unless surrender is unconditional, it is but a tendency like the others... º ºI am totally liberated intellectually but how come I haven't achieved ºMoksha? The above is the answer......vasanas and samskaras. Intellectual liberation? Refusing to give up a crutch like intellect is one of the causes - clinging in one form or another, whether to "guru", family, friend or belief... And what about that (addictive?) veil of 'love & compassion'? º ºPrisoners on death row could say it is all illusion, but when I say it ºis illusion I mean it is a projected changing kaleidasope and therefor ºe unreal. For something that changes cannot be real!! º ºONS.........Tony. Well, whether something is real or unreal, is something for which i couldn't care less because, if "reality" would depend on "human understanding", it couldn't be reality, is it? Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Dear Jan, You wrote: ....if "reality" would depend on "human understanding", it couldn't be reality, is it? Wonderful... Love, Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release 7/18/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 , "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: > On 8/4/01 at 12:16 AM Tony O'Clery wrote: > > º, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote Namaste Jan, Sorry but you are into vndism again.....ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 On 8/3/01 at 6:18 PM Wim Borsboom wrote: ºDear Jan, º ºYou wrote: º...if "reality" would depend on º"human understanding", ºit couldn't be reality, is it? º ºWonderful... º ºLove, Wim A matter of the "proper" guru - see attachment regarding the regular puja She converted the vegan lizards to meat eaters, offering her leftovers to them and encouraged the mice to risk a run on her food too... Thanks to her, the "outdoor pets" have given up the "struggle for life" and are practicing meditation... Something their human brethren can only be envious of... Love, Jan Attachment: (image/jpeg) Puja.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Dear Tony, It would be so amazing to hear you speak from your Heart. I have heard what you have studied and assimilated into your brain, but have a longing to hear from YOU. What is this Divine Expression called Tony? What does IT have to say? Anything at all? Sing us the song of your Heart! This is the true Inspiration. Love, Kheyala Beautifully put Kheyala )) __Loving Embraces__ __Lynette __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Anything that can be experienced is false, why worry about it or concern oneself with it, unless it leads to one pointedness? Hearing from my human ego heart is just a waste. This doesn't mean I don't have Daya or compassion.......ONS.......Tony. Hello Tony, You are correct that we should not worry or concern ourselves about what emotions we are experiencing, yet we do not need to even be concerned even when it is or is not one pointedness. Who decided when one pointedness was the only thing to strive for? Hearing from your ego heart, is hearing from yourself... Who decided that the ego is a waste?????? Either you will hear pain? And what does that say? but that you are holding onto some memory or illusion... Or you will hear joy, and what is that saying????? probably the same thing... But we are here not to just "quote" or "relate" our beliefs or even our experiences to back up those beliefs, but to play and have fun.... Why is that a waste???? Your ego heart.... does not exist.... Your heart is merely yourself and it does not contain emotions.... So shall we look at the heart??? When I speak from my heart my whole world opens up before my eyes, and I see a multitude of avenues. Do I worry about which I should follow? No, but I see them, then I dance down the way that life takes me.... That is being... That is joy... And shall I ever become so bored with my ego/self that I feel that it is a waste of time to even acknowledge that this illusion can be wonderful just the way it is. Then shall I die then, because there would be no reason to live as human any longer... Experience the fullness/emptiness of being is all we need to do.... but for me, it is never a waste to allow my being to experience whatever emotion/non emotion that erupts from my experiences... Hello, All.... Just got back from a lovely weekend road trip to Kentucky.. Louisville precisely... The drive was wonderful... I enjoyed the scenery, and big green hills.... The weather was very decent..... Met up with some friends had a wonderful party, all day to be sure, outside amongst the trees, and the bugs... Enjoyed every bit of it... Nice wonderful conversations with my husband, most of them did not even include "spiritual enlightenment" A waste??? No, my wonderful friends.... A delightful experience.... And who cares who enjoyed it more, my ego..... or me.... because the two are one.. and so we shall remain so. Love ya, Tony.....I Just had to speak. lol __Loving Embraces__ __Lynette __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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