Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 Namaste All,IMO, As I coined the expression Vndism let me say that it is not just talking in a non dual way, but also not doing practice on purifying the buddhi of samskaras. At the concrete rock level there are already movement samksaras built in from the atom and subatomic particles. It is movement that causes creation, without the opposites and movement we would only have potentiality, speaking relatively of course. As the jiva moves with the crumbling of the rock into granite and crystal, moving up into the vegetable animal etc; the samskaras multiply. So by the time an entity is born as a human for the first time, it has almost infinite samskaras. If one goes to the subtle and the subtlest level one comes to the potentiality of energy or prakriti. The Goddess or Saguna is the Infinite Consciousness in association with this projected energy. Ultimately unreal. Even though many Bhaktas are involved with love energy and emotion, they themselves are in fact samskaras. We have to freed from our happiness. Warm fuzzies is not love. A cold unemotional person helping a disabled person is. There are different paths and the path of Bhakti is not always the same as the path of Jnana. In any description of Jesus and the Buddha healing people, do you see any descriptions of emotionalism........No,....because they are detached from that trap. Check it out and read them again!! Ultimately all love energy and emotion is false and unreal; as is the Goddess. This is just a concept for explaining in some way the inexplicable creation that our own mind actually visualises. When the last personal samskara is neutralised the entire creation will have found to have never happened at all.......ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 Dear Tony, You wrote: > ...purifying the buddhi of samskaras. Please tell us exactly what *you* know about "buddhi", as well as anything *you* know about "samskaras." But please, would you be so kind not to use Sanskrit terminology, just words that can be found in a good English dictionary. Also please do not give us quotes from masters or sages or scriptures, just your own plain English words from your own practice, experience and non-vndist wisdom. After that, could you tell us why you think that the "buddhi" needs purification of "samskaras." Could you also tell how "buddhi" (you did say buddhi) can pick up impurities, if that is indeed the effect that samskaras have on buddhi. > At the concrete rock level there are already movement > samskaras built in from the atom and subatomic particles. Tell us of that experience, I take it that you have concrete experience of this at the concrete rock level. So again do not speak from intuition, your best guess, what you think or figure, or what you have read about this. No please speak to us from practice and experience at the concrete rock level. > It is movement that causes creation, > without the opposites and movement > we would only have potentiality, > speaking relatively of course. Now when you speak "relatively", you obviously also know what "relativity" is. And when you know what relativity is, you are obviously aware that in relativity there are no opposites, nor is movement the way it is ordinarily thought of. > As I coined the expression Vndism > let me say that it is not just talking in a non dual way,... You are not a dualist I trust, and as you coined the expression Vndism, I take it that you speak from practiced non-dualism. So again, please clarify why you enter the concept of opposites in your discussion. But again, please speak to us from your experience and practice... no quotes... no Sanskrit. Oh, and also please clarify how "movement causes creation" Again, I take it, that you will speak from experience and practice. > As the jiva moves with the crumbling of the rock into granite and crystal,... Could you tell us in plain English about "the jiva" and then and please clarify your statement again > moving up into the vegetable animal etc; the samskaras multiply. Please tell us from your experience, not from conceptual thinking... > If one goes to the subtle and the subtlest level > one comes to the potentiality of energy or prakriti. Now you use the term "prakriti," please again explain. But while you do that, I trust that you do not have to bring in the term "purusha" as that would be very dualistic. How can a dualist expression such as "prakriti" arise in your discussion when you are a practicing non dualist? (May I coin the word "pndist?") > The Goddess or Saguna is the Infinite Consciousness > in association with this projected energy. Please tell us how "The Goddess" or "Saguna" can arise from and in a non-vndistic discussion. Could you make sure to do that without getting into dualism! > Ultimately unreal. Tony, you use the word "unreal," can you explain how a non-vndist (pndist) can seriously use that word and still spend energy being the body and reading this with your eyes? > Even though many Bhaktas are involved with love energy and emotion, > they themselves are in fact samskaras. > We have to [be] freed from our happiness. Who told you so? Or this expression spontaneously arise from you, not influenced by any outside sources? > Warm fuzzies is not love. Please tell us what "warm fuzzies" are and also tell us what love is. > Ultimately all love energy and emotion is false and unreal; Please tell us exactly what energy is. (Actually, why... just tell us, who duped you into believing that that statement is true?) > as is the Goddess. This is just a concept for explaining in some way the > inexplicable creation that our own mind actually visualises. Tell us how our mind visualises, what are the dynamics? > ... When the last personal samskara is neutralised > the entire creation will have found to have never happened at all... Tell us how you came upon that, how did you find out? Now again, I trust that you will talk from practiced vndism (pndism), not from scriptures or sayings by sages. > ... When the last personal samskara is neutralised > the entire creation will have found to have never happened at all... That is what you say! And you say it so well, but so very verbally! Will you now please neutralize this personal samskara of yours. Why would you wait when your intent is to practice... not just verbalize. What is holding you up? If I am one of those who are holding you up, I will again be very pleased to again filter your posts from my inbox. Love, Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 Oops, dear Tony, You wrote: > As I coined the expression Vndism let me say > that it is not just talking in a non dual way, but also > *not* doing practice on purifying the buddhi of samskaras. I just noticed the word *not*. So you actually meant that Vndism is NOT doing practice on purifying the buddhi of samskaras? Hmmm? > When the last personal samskara is neutralised > the entire creation will have found > to have never happened at all... Anyway, how will that "samskara neutralizing" occur? Let's just assume that it does occur, will the entire creation have to wait for the "last personal samskara" to be neutralized, before the entire creation "will have found to have never happened at all? Does the entire creation happen to "happen", before it finds out "to have never happened at all?" Let's find out what "happen" means... >From the Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary ........................... Happen 1 : to occur by chance -- often used with "it" <it so happens I'm going your way> 2 : to come into being or occur as an event, process, or result <mistakes will happen> 3 : to do, encounter, or attain something by or as if by chance <happened to overhear the plotters> 4 a : to meet or discover something by chance <happened upon a system that worked -- Richard Corbin> b : to come or go casually: make a chance appearance <he happened into the room just then> 5 : to come especially by way of injury or harm <I promise nothing will happen to you> ................ "Happen" actually derives from the Scandinavian / Icelandic "happ", meaning lucky (by good chance, good luck). A "lucky strike" that causes "happ-iness." "Hapless" = no luck, unlucky, "By happenstance" = a chance occurrence, good luck. Watch that English, Tony, it may happen, that it plays tricks on you... > Warm fuzzies is not love. > A cold unemotional person helping a disabled person is. ... > In any description of Jesus and the Buddha healing people, > do you see any descriptions of emotionalism........ > No, ....because they are detached from that trap. > Check it out and read them again!! Yep, Tony, sure, :-) Jesus and the Buddha were "cold unemotional" persons...? Come on now, Tony, get off it... If anything, they were enlightened BEINGS, not people hiding behind personality masks (persona) of being cold and emotional... Love, Wim (Oh how verbal, oh how mental, oh how unemotional, oh how cold.) PS. Tony my invitation is still standing. Why don't you find out if love is verbal, mental, unemotional and cold, (stoic maybe?) like you suggest Jesus' or the Buddha's love and loving kindness were? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release 7/18/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <wim@a...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > You wrote: > > ...purifying the buddhi of samskaras. > > Please tell us exactly what *you* know about "buddhi", as well as anything > *you* know about "samskaras." > But please, would you be so kind not to use Sanskrit terminology, just words > that can be found in a good English dictionary. Also please do not give us > quotes from masters or sages or scriptures, just your own plain English > words from your own practice, experience and non-vndist wisdom. > After that, could you tell us why you think that the "buddhi" needs > purification of "samskaras." > Could you also tell how "buddhi" (you did say buddhi) can pick up > impurities, if that is indeed the effect that samskaras have on buddhi. Namaste Wim, If no-one quoted the sages, why did Buddha, Jesus, Ramana etc bother teaching? The Buddhi or intellect is really the vijnanamayakosa or awareness sheath. This is where the attributes are impressed, and the samskaras are preserved in this mind. These conditionings or impression prevent the true light of the Self shining through so to speak. Without the purification of these vibrations there can be no moksha for even one thought will prevent it. For thought is the difference between man and 'God'. So whilst one has a thought samskara, one is in 'bondage', whether one is intellectually understanding liberation etc. Knowing all about a king doesn't make one a king. All but Nirguna or Nirvana is unreal!! My own meditations indicate that vibrations and sensations are to be overcome and not responded to.........ONS........Tony.IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <wim@a...> wrote: > Yep, Tony, sure, :-) Jesus and the Buddha were "cold unemotional" > persons...? Come on now, Tony, get off it... If anything, they were > enlightened BEINGS, not people hiding behind personality masks (persona) of > being cold and emotional... Namaste Wim. Love/Energy ultimately is Saguna therefore unreal. Jesus and Buddha were unemotional because they were 'realised'. No doubt as they were jivanmuktis the saguna energy was there until they dropped the body, but they were unattached. When one's last samskara is neutralised then for that person creation never happened. Did it happen in your deep sleep? No!! To a normal human the reactions or non reactions of a 'realised', being could be taken as cold. As some of Buddha's instructions to grieving people seemed. What is the point of indulging illusion? Read Jesus's words to the women with the issue of blood, or at Lazarus's tomb, or to the son of the Roman soldier etc. Ultimately there is no Goddess, No Saguna, No Energy of any kind..ONS...Tony. Only Nirvana!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 Tony:Ultimately there is no Goddess, No Saguna, No Energy of any kind..ONS...Tony. Only Nirvana!!!!!!! Kheyala: ....and no nirvana either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 Dear Tony, You wrote: > Ultimately there is no Goddess, No Saguna, No Energy of any kind... Only Nirvana!!!!!!! > All but Nirguna or Nirvana is unreal!! Tony, too much Sanskrit, and... you do not talk from experience, practice, being. If you did, you would not say any of this. You are still copycatting your conceptual images of the sages. And you still assume that they mean what you understand. You try to put them and their words into a "Tony mould." All that to justify your own unwillingness or difficulty to surrender your concept of what reality was, is, or is to be, All that to justify your own unwillingness or difficulty to surrender your concept of who you think Tony was, is, or is to be. > ... no Goddess No Saguna, No Energy of any kind... Only Nirvana!!!!!!! When you uphold a "no / yes" dichotomy you are: a dualist... a pretend non-dualist... a pretend non "verbal non-dualist"... a pretend practicing non-dualist. > Ultimately there is no Goddess, No Saguna, No Energy of any kind... Only Nirvana!!!!!!! Ultimately... is a concept... Ultimately... is a mental construct... No... is a concept... No... is a mental construct... Nothing... is a concept... Nothing... is a mental construct... Unreal... is a concept... Unreal... is a mental construct... > ...Goddess, ...Saguna, ...Nirguna, ...Nirvana... all concepts... > My own meditations indicate that vibrations and sensations are to be overcome and not responded to......... You can pretend not to respond, but WHAT IS IT that you "are not" to respond to? You can pretend to overcome, but WHAT IS IT that you "are to" overcome? And while you are trying to overcome and not to respond, who are you forgetting? > ONS........Tony.IMO. Opinion... a concept... >My own meditations indicate that vibrations and sensations are to be overcome and not responded to.........ONS........Tony.IMO. You are not meditating, you are conceptualizing... Love, Wim PS. 1 250 479 0001 408 Goward Road Victoria BC, Canada V9E 2J5 All symbols, indicating that I am here, that I live here. You can come and see me, feel me, touch me, hear me, smell me, know me... carnally (heeheehee) Only what matters (verb) is... Again, Love, Wim Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release 7/18/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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