Fellow Feelings

[Guest guest]

Hows that for a headline? Maybe for the subject heading I should have designated:

JillDharmaGloTonyWhiteWolfeMiraFriends, sort of an American equivalent

to Sanskrit or Welsh wordrunon.

My first real take on our reactions to "fellow feelings" is a positive

one. It seems apparent that we all are doing "real" sadhana, not the

same sadhana, but of course, that's fine. I'm a relative newcomer to

these forums so the last couple of months, from trepidatious

lurkerdom to my present inept easefulness, has been crammed with

learning. Perhaps, the most significant thing I've learned is that

what many are doing here in the name of spiritual life or sadhana is

just an unaware immersion in and creation of the usual soap opera, Me

against You.

I'm a participant in a series of related anti-cult lists, that have

revealed the most astonishing behind the scenes mal adaptation to one

another, going so far as anti-list "secret" lists, prejudicial and

"creative" moderation, and not a few instances of anonymous hate

mail directed to one or more of the participants. All rather sad.

I've recently come to a genuine respect for those of us, like Harsha,

who manage to moderate a list in a sane way to maintain a civil

emotional tone. I've also come to an increasing respect for those of

us like you and I who can respect and contribute to that tone while

airing sometimes profound differences. As the bard put it,"T'is a

consumation much to be desired".

To simplify for the point of drawing a point: our different views can

be summed up in tony's assertion that these "emotions" that seem to

come to us so much more easily after years of sadhana are karma

building and, in contrast, Dharma's suggestion, seconded in one way

or another by the rest of us, that these same emotions are karma

releasing.

I'm of the latter opinion, and would like to introduce another view to

enrich the stew. What I didn't mention in my original "fellow

feelings" post was that there is another kind of emotional expression

that I experience uniquely as a development of sadhana that doesn't

seem at all problematic or sentimental, but rather, a simple non

specific release...emotion without an object, tears without "fellow

feeling" or a particular object of compassion. These emotions, even

without particular objects, seem to be of the compassionate type, as

they express themselves in tears. There's no hint of the free

floating type of angry or anxious feeling about them.

I'd say to Tony, that these latter expressions can't be karma building

as their character is so much one of non-specific release. But before

we go further in this direction, do any of the rest of you experience

this 2nd type of emotionality? If you do, it would add to the general

character of our discussion to hear about it.

It's my guess, or non-provable opinion if you like, that even the object oriented release

I talk about in my 1st post and Jill, Dharma and Glo describe in

theirs, is a release of Karma in the form of pent up emotion that has

needed an object of expression and seizes on an appropriate moment for

release.

To Tony, and also to the rest of us, I want to generalize and say that

I'm only making these observations in relation to people like us who

are doing sadhana. For me when most people cry at sentimental or

melodramatic events, it is a kind of emotional vulgarity, although it

may be very satisfying and cathartic for the participant.

We can only speak about a few topics at any one time, so thoughts

about initiation only seem appropriate to our discussion in the

context of an observation that initiation seems, at least in my

judgment, to release an energy that functions as a psychological

"dislodging" mechanism that tends to force long buried, previously

unconscious material to the frontal surface of our personalities for

observation and release.

It's in this context that I make my assertion that even the object

directed emotions are a release of old personal karma rather than a

new encapsulation.

what do you guys think? (What do you girls think?) (What do you guys/girls think?)

yours in the bonds,

eric

[Guest guest]

Dear eric,

I felt such familiarity when reading your words:

....emotion without an object, tears without "fellow feeling" or a

particular object (of compassion.)

 

These emotions, even without particular objects, (seem to be of the

compassionate type, as they) express themselves in tears. There's no

hint of the free floating type of angry or anxious feeling about

them.

{my parentheses}

 

 

 

Kheyala:

 

Yes. I have been experiencing these "emotions without objects" a lot.

Probably every other day. Only for me, with the more intense ones,

there's often an anxious feeling that chases it in the thought-form

of, "What the heck IS this? Where did it come from? What does it

mean?"

 

Of course, when I recognize this thinking, the thinking simply

goes...and all that's left is the remaining vibration which is seen

as none other than "..............." So no problem.

 

Also, I find that while it does at times take the color of

"compassion" (as you mentioned), it can take many other colors as

well. Therefore it is easier for me to see the essence of the

vibration as colorless. And, for me, there may or may not be tears.

 

When these "emotions without objects" are seen to spontaneously arise

out of, and sink back into, "...............," well, who is left then

to have the karma?

 

Love,

Kheyala

[Guest guest]

>>> EBlackstead 08/06/01 11:06 AM >>>

I'm of the latter opinion, and would like to introduce another view to enrich

the stew. What I didn't mention in my original "fellow feelings" post was

that there is another kind of emotional expression that I experience uniquely

as a development of sadhana that doesn't seem at all problematic or

sentimental, but rather, a simple non specific release...emotion without an

object, tears without "fellow feeling" or a particular object of compassion.

These emotions, even without particular objects, seem to be of the

compassionate type, as they express themselves in tears. There's no hint of

the free floating type of angry or anxious feeling about them.

 

Dear Eric, Mark, Tony, Glo, et al,

I also experience this kind of emotional clearing or release. Ten years ago I

began a specific mantra practice that works in the heart chakra, and I was

surprised to experience emotion unrelated to outer events strongly, from the

beginning of this practice. There was often crying or spontaneous laughter

during the practice. After the practice there was an increased feeling of peace

and calm. That was my first experience with emotion not specific to experience.

Not too much later the arousal of kundalini led to other kinds of experiences of

clearing personal and transpersonal emotions.

 

There are different orders of this experience for me, but the distinctions are

sometimes rather grey. Sometimes, as in the mantra practice, it is clear the

emotions are 'mine', stored and releasing. Sometimes, like in the produce

section of the grocery store for example, I might pick up a whole psychic field

of emotion that is clearly not mine. Tony raises an interesting point about

this--that one must lear to learn to observe without becoming entangled in the

feelings. In my experience with feeling the emotions of others, I don't know

how to do that very well, have detachment or draw the line between feeling and

not feeling what the other is experiencing. So if I pass through a place where

trauma or grief have recently been experienced, I pick up and then feel the

emotion, quite involuntarily. In those instances I begin to cry or sob or have

difficulty breathing, physically going through whatever the other person

experienced. ( My regular place to go running for several years was a cemetary,

so I got to observe this phenomenon a lot!)

 

I regularly see an energy worker who has suggested that I not make distinctions

between what is 'mine' and what is not, but treat it all to something like the

buddhist tonglin (sp?) practice, an all-encompassing compassionate clearing. I

would be interested in hearing how others deal with this kind of experience.

How does one build the kind of psychic strength that keeps one balanced and

grounded while still being open and receptive to the emotional pain of others?

 

Jill

[Guest guest]

Hi Eric et al,

>I've recently come to a genuine respect for those of us, like Harsha, who

>manage to moderate a list in a sane way to maintain a civil emotional

>tone.

 

Yes!! Some lists are not worth the time, unless you enjoy fighting,

nastiness, one-up-manship, and so on. Emotional/astral and intellectual

stuff - counter-productive if you're after the spiritual.

>I've also come to an increasing respect for those of us like you and I

>who can respect and contribute to that tone while airing sometimes

>profound differences.

 

"Variety is the spice of life." If we were all exactly the same and just

told each other the same things over and over, I'd be bored to tears.

>From talking about our differences, we learn about traditions and

experiences other than our own. I'm glad to learn this kind of thing - I

use techniques from any tradition. My students are not all the same, and

one may need a very different method from the next one.

 

And also, sometimes our differences are only differences in terminology and

symbolism. When we realize that we're really talking about the same thing,

but using different words and symbols, that can open our awareness in some

area - and expand the global consciousness just a bit more, with the

increased ease in communication and the sense that there is no us and them,

just us.

>our different views can be summed up in tony's assertion that these

>"emotions" that seem to come to us so much more easily after years of

>sadhana are karma building and, in contrast, Dharma's suggestion,

>seconded in one way or another by the rest of us, that these same

>emotions are karma releasing. I'm of the latter opinion,

>snip<

 

I think it can work either way. In my opinion and experience it's a good

thing to still be an emotional person, even after years of sadhana - to

still be using the emotional/astral body - if we intend to stick around in

this life for some years to come. And as that body becomes cleaner and

clearer, the good emotions - the love-based emotions - can flow freely and

release.

 

But it's still possible for the negative emotions, the fear-based emotions,

to arise. Once we start the clearing process, it keeps on going as long as

there's anything left to clear. You find one block - old stuff that

obstructs the flow of energy - and clear it, send it up and out, and it may

knock loose another block... which you then have to cope with. And

sometimes stuff from other lives comes up and still needs to be cleared.

Or maybe negative emotions arise in response to something another person

does or says.

 

If we clear these negative emotions, fine. If it was an old block, it's

gone. If it was newly arisen emotion, it's gone. Sometimes it's hard to

tell the difference. Someone may say something to you, a negative emotion

arises, and ties into some old stuff, even something from another life. So

you just clear it all - you don't really have to psych it all out, just get

rid of it. This is all karma clearing.

 

When we don't clear negative emotional stuff, then it's still there, and it

begins to harden like old mud - it becomes another block to the flow of

energy. And that's building karma. It gets triggered again, and it

accumulates more astral stuff and becomes a bigger block.

 

Just expressing negative emotions doesn't necessarily clear them. It's so

easy to expand them and build them bigger. So we need to really clear

them, give them up and get rid of them.

 

The hardest stuff to clear, in my experience, is the stuff I find I don't

really want to clear. If something inside me - some part of me - doesn't

want to give that up, for whatever reason - then it's very difficult. If,

for instance, a little voice says, "But look what he DID! How can I

forgive that? He deserves to have me angry." Or a part that still is into

the passive aggressive thing and doesn't want to give up the hurt, wants

him to see how much he's hurt me and suffer for it. Then to really clear

it all, we have to be willing to give up the whole thing - give up the

righteous anger, or give up the being hurt that is punishing him.

 

If we keep on clearing it all, that's clearing karma. But any that we

don't clear is going to be building.

 

I'm talking here about negative emotions. I don't mind the positive ones

building. If we're in evolution, then we're going to carry over something

from former experience in other lives. If I feel full of love and it's

partly from another life, that's okay with me.

>What I didn't mention in my original "fellow feelings" post was that

>there is another kind of emotional expression that I experience uniquely

>as a development of sadhana that doesn't seem at all problematic or

>sentimental, but rather, a simple non specific release...emotion without

>an object, tears without "fellow feeling" or a particular object of

>compassion. >snip< But before we go further in this direction, do any of

>the rest of you experience this 2nd type of emotionality? If you do, it

>would add to the general character of our discussion to hear about it.

 

Years ago, sometimes when I was just sitting with a blank mind, like on the

toilet - forgive me folks, but that IS one time I usually seem to have a

blank mind - I would find myself saying quietly, "I love you. I love

you." It puzzled me because it wasn't directed at any person. Just seemed

like love flowing. Recently, I've noticed it happening once in a while.

 

Other than that, I don't think of other occurrences of that type... could

be it's something so natural that I don't notice it. If it happens, I'll

notice it now.

>These emotions, even without particular objects, seem to be of the

>compassionate type, as they express themselves in tears. There's no hint

>of the free floating type of angry or anxious feeling about them. I'd

>say to Tony, that these latter expressions can't be karma building as

>their character is so much one of non-specific release.

>From your description, I don't think this could be building _bad_ karma.

 

Feelings of love, feelings of compassion with tears - I don't know the

cause, but I'll throw out a couple of suggestions.

 

1) Women are well acquainted with the phenomenon of emotions arising with

chemical changes in the body, changes in hormone flow. I used to sometimes

have a day of depression just before my period - purely hormonal. And the

first time I nursed a baby, I knew it even more certainly. When the milk

comes in, it comes suddenly in a rush, enough to hurt sometimes. That

release of milk is triggered by the release of some hormone. For a while,

before my body formed habits re. nursing,

I used to get a surge of emotion just before the milk came in. It could be

any emotion, and it could be very strong. Sometimes I suddenly wanted to

burst out crying - or suddenly was furious and wanted to yell at someone.

When I realized it was happening just before the milk came in, that helped.

I knew the cause was hormones, and I only had to hang on for a minute or

two and it would go away.

 

When you are into spiritual development - and especially, I think, if you

have active Kundalini - your physical body is also changing, being refined

and rebuilt. I saw some changes before my Kundalini went physically

active. And after that, more rapid changes. Age spots (aka liver spots)

came to the surface and peeled away. Skin, muscles, and bones changed and

improved. I feel certain my HGH (human growth hormone) is flowing

strongly, even though my physical body is chronologically almost 65 -

because my hair and nails grow so rapidly.

 

So I'm suggesting that some hormone could be causing emotions to flow

without apparent cause, without an object. Nothing to be concerned

about, just natural for one on a spiritual path.

 

2) It could be what Mark calls transpersonal emotion.

>Mark:

>yes, I do experience emotional release, which appears to me to be

nonpersonal, or perhaps transpersonal. This happens rather often in

fact these days, and follows a good deal of releasing of personal stuff,

which is still ongoing as well. They feel different, although both seem

a release of attachments, which is cleansing and healing.

 

Yes, at some point we begin clearing for others, taking on others' karma

and clearing it. It's a service. You don't have to be totally clean and

clear to be doing this work. At some point, when you're able to do it, it

begins.

 

It doesn't always feel different to me. If some negative emotion hits me

suddenly, I usually figure it's someone else's. One morning I was lying in

bed, just waking up... and suddenly I was in utter despair! It was

terrible. It took me a minute or two to realize that there was no reason

for it and it must be someone else's - and then get to work clearing it.

 

But it may not hit suddenly. When I clear (which I usually do at the

beginning of meditation and/or Kundalini work), I intend to clear all the

karmic stuff, whether it's mine or someone else's. If there's something

negative, I don't really care to figure out if it's mine or not - a waste

of time. I just clear.

>Mark:

>The

transpersonal release is accompanied by a sense of numinosity and is

humbling. I welcome it and am made glad by it. When I've done a peice

of it, my chest feels like a huge crater softly breathing a sweetness

out into the world (and into me).

 

I can't say I feel just the same thing. But I do feel more energy from

clearing. If you give it to God/Goddess - send it back into pralaya - what

you gave will be returned and multiplied. If you don't get back what you

gave, you get the energy equivalent - and multiplied. When I first started

doing a lot of clearing for others, my only problem was handling the large

amounts of energy - had a problem with energy overload at first.

>Mark:

>Well, words don't do it justice, but

yes, I am in the camp of Christopher Bache, who in his book "Dark Night,

Early Dawn" postulates that in transpersonal work, one works on one's

own historical "stuff" and when that has progressed somewhat, one opens

to working on the species "stuff". I think there is a great deal of

species "stuff" to see and release, so thank you for helping out and for

bringing attention to it.

 

Among the last blocks to be cleared, at the ajna/sahasrara level, is a lot

of species stuff, human stuff, archetypal stuff. And again, after you

clear your own, I'm sure you keep getting more to clear for others. A

friend of mine speaks of doing planetary clearing.

 

So, Eric, you could be picking up emotional stuff from someone you're close

to, either geographically or by the internet. We know we pick up negative

stuff from others, and it's a service to clear it for them and us. You are

not as separate from others as it appears... you may be sharing someone

else's compassionate feelings.

 

You might try writing down the time when it happens and then asking a few

people very close to you if they were feeling anything like that at about

that time. But the source might not be the person you'd think.

>Eric:

>It's my guess, or non-provable opinion if you like, that even the object

>oriented release I talk about in my 1st post and Jill, Dharma and Glo

>describe in theirs, is a release of Karma in the form of pent up emotion

>that has needed an object of expression and seizes on an appropriate

>moment for release.

 

Could be. I used to have an illness that, when it recurred, often brought

depression. It's a natural tendency to want to figure out what's causing

the depression, to start relating it to this thing or that thing, this

person or that person. After I realized it always came with a relapse of

the illness, I knew it didn't relate to anyone or anything outside, and I

quit trying to make the connection.

>To Tony, and also to the rest of us, I want to generalize and say that I'm

>only making these observations in relation to people like us who are doing

>sadhana. For me when most people cry at sentimental or melodramatic

>events, it is a kind of emotional vulgarity, although it may be very

>satisfying and cathartic for the participant. We can only speak about a

>few topics at any one time, so thoughts about initiation only seem

>appropriate to our discussion in the context of an observation that

>initiation seems, at least in my judgment, to release an energy that

>functions as a psychological "dislodging" mechanism that tends to force

>long buried, previously unconscious material to the frontal surface of

>our personalities for observation and release. It's in this context that

>I make my assertion that even the object directed emotions are a release

>of old personal karma rather than a new encapsulation. what do you guys

>think? (What do you girls think?) (What do you guys/girls think?)

 

Not sure what you mean by initiation. In my experience there are a number

of initiations. Some people give lists of the initiations. I don't think

it's important what they're called - the important thing is to look and see

what each is about, what plane/level it's taking place on. And even though

these initiations are numbered on the lists, they don't necessarily take

place in that order. People are different - we develop differently - and

we may or may not develop in the sequence suggested by someone's list.

 

DK says a plane is a state of consciousness, and initiations are changes in

consciousness. A good way to look at it, I think.

 

Hormones can cause changes in consciousness. And changes in consciousness

can affect hormone flow.

 

As for the dislodging mechanism bringing up stuff for clearing, probably

the nature of that is different depending on what plane/level/state of

consciousness you're working on. But I do know that if you keep on

clearing the blocks, the old stuff, the mud and dirt that obstructs energy

flow and hides the face of spirit, more will keep coming loose, keep coming

up for clearing - until it's all gone.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

> I also experience this kind of emotional clearing or release. Ten years

>ago I began a specific mantra practice that works in the heart chakra, and

>I was surprised to experience emotion unrelated to outer events strongly,

>from the beginning of this practice. There was often crying or

>spontaneous laughter during the practice. After the practice there was an

>increased feeling of peace and calm. That was my first experience with

>emotion not specific to experience. Not too much later the arousal of

>kundalini led to other kinds of experiences of clearing personal and

>transpersonal emotions.

 

Heart chakra! That's interesting!

>snip<

>I regularly see an energy worker who has suggested that I not make

>distinctions between what is 'mine' and what is not, but treat it all to

>something like the buddhist tonglin (sp?) practice, an all-encompassing

>compassionate clearing. I would be interested in hearing how others deal

>with this kind of experience. How does one build the kind of psychic

>strength that keeps one balanced and grounded while still being open and

>receptive to the emotional pain of others?

 

1) As I said before, I don't try too hard to make those distinctions, just

clear everything.

 

2) It's possible to put the clearing for others on automatic. You can do a

lot more of it if you don't have to suffer through it all, so just tell

your guide/ spiritual guru/ High Self that you want it on automatic, that

it can just go on outside the conscious awareness unless your guide has a

reason to do it otherwise. It works for me. The only times I'm aware of

it now seems to be when there's something I should do - like find out who

I'm clearing for and maybe send a note or something.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

How does one build the kind of psychic strength that keeps one

balanced and grounded while still being open and receptive to the

emotional pain of others? Jill

Dear Jill,

 

For me, there is only one way....and that is to be completely Empty.

 

Love, Kheyala

[Guest guest]

>>> kheyala 08/07/01 12:27 PM >>>

 

How does one build the kind of psychic strength that keeps one balanced and

grounded while still being open and receptive to the emotional pain of others?

 

Jill

 

Dear Jill,

 

For me, there is only one way....and that is to be completely Empty.

 

Love, Kheyala

 

Yeah, thanks, Kheyala, that's the ticket. Now if I could just figure that one

out...

 

Jill

[Guest guest]

Thank you Dharma, for your feedback on clearing emotions. I have been enjoying

your recent posts, like the one in response to Eric this morning. It is good to

have you back on the list.

 

Jill

>>> deva 08/07/01 05:56 AM >>>

[Guest guest]

-

Jill Eggers

Tuesday, August 07, 2001 2:13 PM

Re: Fellow Feelings

>>> kheyala (AT) neteze (DOT) com 08/07/01 12:27 PM >>> How does one build the

kind of psychic strength that keeps one balanced and grounded while

still being open and receptive to the emotional pain of others?

Jill Dear Jill, For me, there is only one way....and that is to

be completely Empty. Love, KheyalaYeah, thanks, Kheyala, that's

the ticket. Now if I could just figure that one out...:)JillDear

Jill,

I said "Empty," not "figuring" !

Love,

Kheyala

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

>Thank you Dharma, for your feedback on clearing emotions. I have been

>enjoying your recent posts, like the one in response to Eric this morning.

>It is good to have you back on the list.

 

Thanks, honey, it's good to be back!

 

Love,

Dharma