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"Seeing" & "hearing", was The Myth of K worship.

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Dharma wrote [[.. sometimes in meditation I hear a tone in each ear,

and they're slightly different - not the same tone.]]

** Whenever you hear a high-pitched ringing in your ears, this is

your Spirit seeking to align itself. It is wise to pause during this

moment, to stop-the-world (so to speak). Do nothing, expect nothing,

be nothing.

 

Otherwise .. it just occured to me that this list has both a Dharma &

a Greg. ::hee-hee::

 

Om Santi ...

Yogini Sakti

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Your're right! Hey, I don't watch TV, but I think Dharma might be an

unusual name for a TV show character. What is she like?

 

At 07:49 PM 8/10/01 -0000, hamsayogini wrote:

>Dharma wrote [[.. sometimes in meditation I hear a tone in each ear,

>and they're slightly different - not the same tone.]]

>** Whenever you hear a high-pitched ringing in your ears, this is

>your Spirit seeking to align itself. It is wise to pause during this

>moment, to stop-the-world (so to speak). Do nothing, expect nothing,

>be nothing.

>

>Otherwise .. it just occured to me that this list has both a Dharma &

>a Greg. ::hee-hee::

>

>Om Santi ...

>Yogini Sakti

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Hi Dharma,

 

At 12:29 PM 8/10/01 -0700, Dharma wrote:

>Perception from heart chakra? 4th plane? Can you describe it in more

detail?

 

I've never thought about how to talk about it. The experience feels like

energies are opening, closing, traveling straight or around other energies,

communicating, embracing or being invited or not; feeling light or heavy.

There is no color or sound component, and no narrative content to it.

E.g., No story about what happened in a past life. But without any seeming

links between this cheat-area sensing and anything else, I'll

spontaneously get an idea at the verbal level about what is going on with

another person or place at the physical, emotional and spiritual levels.

Usually these intuitions agree with the investigations of other people who

have been trained at this kind of seeing. If this kind of perception comes

to me, it can happen no matter how far away the person is, or how far back

in time. If it goes forward in time, I don't recognize it as such!

 

I know that there are people who have reported hearing sights and seeing

sounds. In some forms of Mahayana Buddhism, one of the hallmarks of full

Buddhahood if full omniscience in every pore of the body. That is, the

ears will know all truths and see all sights; the eyes will be able to know

mathematical truths, etc.

 

Greg from before:

>>To say that we absolutely see the same thing that we hear (say a ringing

>>bell), a vast amount of internal translation is going on to relate one

>>stream to the other.

 

Dharma:

>Not sure what you mean. I know there are people who see sounds and hear

>colors... it's called synesthesia, I think. I can relate a tone to a

>color, or vice versa, but that's not the same thing.

 

I was referring to something like the Molyneaux Experiement in the 18th

Century, true case.

 

A man born blind was very well schooled and trained.

He could feel and hear his way around his world very

effectively. As an adult, he regained his sight.

The question that had been debated by the 18th century

philosophers was this:

 

Would this man upon regaining his sight be able to

visually distinguish a round thing from a square one?

He can already do this very well tactually. That is,

sitting at a table with a round block and a square block

in front of him, he can tell you from feeling them which

is round and which is square. But upon regaining his

sight, could he by seeing tell you which one is round,

which is square?

 

The answer was "no, he could not." He could visually determine that they

were different, and could group square things and round things together.

But based on tactile evidence alone, he could not instantly tell visually

which was round and which was square. He had to be trained visually from

the ground up. There was a movie about that, oh, two years ago or so.

According to some Western philosophy, which loves this example, there

really is no object out there sending round signals through all the senses.

Instead, we build up the world through association. We associate this

sight with that sound. Then we put them together and call it a "barking

dog," etc.

>It occurs to me that sometimes in meditation I hear a tone in each ear, and

>they're slightly different - not the same tone. I pull them together until

>they're the same - for balance and alignment. But I wonder if using two

>different tones - leaving them different and somehow using the difference -

>would (or does without our awareness) help in distance perception.

 

That reminds me of this new kind of psychological therapy called EMDR

(www.emdr.com). It is effective for past traumas like abuse as a child,

and I know two people who have been made much happier by it. It uses this

principle, though through vision. By aligning the eyes with an uneven,

then even row of flickering lights, the oculomotor movements tend to smooth

out the brainwaves and calm the emotions.

 

Enjoying this discussion,

 

--Greg

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Hi Sakti,

 

BTW, is this your name? Or is Yogini Sakti a kind of descriptive title?

Is Sakti what we should call you? :)

>Dharma wrote [[.. sometimes in meditation I hear a tone in each ear,

>and they're slightly different - not the same tone.]]

>** Whenever you hear a high-pitched ringing in your ears, this is

>your Spirit seeking to align itself. It is wise to pause during this

>moment, to stop-the-world (so to speak). Do nothing, expect nothing,

>be nothing.

 

Yes, my guide/ spiritual guru often uses tones that way. But occasionally

he uses a sudden loud tone in my ears to get my attention. :)))

 

There's good material on this in some old posts from Marcus. Since we keep

having new people here, I think I'll send them again.

>Otherwise .. it just occured to me that this list has both a Dharma &

>a Greg. ::hee-hee::

 

Well, the name was given to me a few years ago, and I accepted it _in spite

of_ not wanting to be classed with ditzy Dharma on TV. :))))

 

Love,

Dharma

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Hi Greg,

>Your're right! Hey, I don't watch TV, but I think Dharma might be an

>unusual name for a TV show character. What is she like?

 

The beautiful, smart but ditzy daughter of a couple of aging flower

children - blurts spontaneously about spirit, yoga, etc... likely to go

into padmasana or begin OMing at the drop of a hat. Greg's parents are

wealthy business/society people. So you can imagine their offspring coming

together... and the parents all confronting each other. :)))

 

You should try to catch the show. :)

 

Love,

Dharma

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Hi Greg,

>>Perception from heart chakra? 4th plane? Can you describe it in more

>detail?

>

>I've never thought about how to talk about it. The experience feels like

>energies are opening, closing, traveling straight or around other energies,

>communicating, embracing or being invited or not; feeling light or heavy.

>There is no color or sound component, and no narrative content to it.

>E.g., No story about what happened in a past life. But without any seeming

>links between this cheat-area sensing and anything else, I'll

>spontaneously get an idea at the verbal level about what is going on with

>another person or place at the physical, emotional and spiritual levels.

>Usually these intuitions agree with the investigations of other people who

>have been trained at this kind of seeing.

 

Yes, I think you're perceiving through Heart Chakra. That would be above

the personality planes - the physical, emotional/astral, and

intellectual/mental. Then when you get the idea at verbal level, that's

the brain translation into personality level so you can understand it and

communicate it.

 

I used to be on a list where we got together every night for meditation,

sharing Heart Chakra love, and sometimes healing. Your description reminds

me of what it felt like, sensing the others.

>If this kind of perception comes

>to me, it can happen no matter how far away the person is, or how far back

>in time. If it goes forward in time, I don't recognize it as such!

 

Yes, time and space are illusions, relatively speaking... they belong to

the lower planes. Above that, you can be with someone anywhere, any time.

We had a "target time" for our group to meet, but just for a focus. If

someone was busy at that time, he could join us at any objective time -

didn't matter.

>I know that there are people who have reported hearing sights and seeing

>sounds. In some forms of Mahayana Buddhism, one of the hallmarks of full

>Buddhahood if full omniscience in every pore of the body. That is, the

>ears will know all truths and see all sights; the eyes will be able to know

>mathematical truths, etc.

 

Well, if we're talking about someone still in full incarnation, living in

the lower bodies, then I don't see how it would be possible to know

everything in the brain/mind all at once or to see everything with the

eyes. So I think it would mean that any knowledge or sight would be

accessible. :)

>Greg from before:

>>>To say that we absolutely see the same thing that we hear (say a ringing

>>>bell), a vast amount of internal translation is going on to relate one

>>>stream to the other.

>

>Dharma:

>>Not sure what you mean. I know there are people who see sounds and hear

>>colors... it's called synesthesia, I think. I can relate a tone to a

>>color, or vice versa, but that's not the same thing.

>

>I was referring to something like the Molyneaux Experiement in the 18th

>Century, true case.

>

> A man born blind was very well schooled and trained.

> He could feel and hear his way around his world very

> effectively. As an adult, he regained his sight.

> The question that had been debated by the 18th century

> philosophers was this:

>

> Would this man upon regaining his sight be able to

> visually distinguish a round thing from a square one?

> He can already do this very well tactually. That is,

> sitting at a table with a round block and a square block

> in front of him, he can tell you from feeling them which

> is round and which is square. But upon regaining his

> sight, could he by seeing tell you which one is round,

> which is square?

>

>The answer was "no, he could not." He could visually determine that they

>were different, and could group square things and round things together.

>But based on tactile evidence alone,

 

Do you mean "visual evidence"?

> he could not instantly tell visually

>which was round and which was square. He had to be trained visually from

>the ground up.

 

I would expect that. I remember reading about encounters with isolated

peoples who had never seen photographs before... and at first they

couldn't see anything there. They had to learn to see a picture in a

photograph.

>There was a movie about that, oh, two years ago or so.

>According to some Western philosophy, which loves this example, there

>really is no object out there sending round signals through all the senses.

> Instead, we build up the world through association. We associate this

>sight with that sound. Then we put them together and call it a "barking

>dog," etc.

 

I'm not much interested in philosophy, in reasoning things out instead of

looking to see what's so. We know there are different planes/levels/states

of consciousness. And we have to have the equipment to sense on any

plane... and the experience to understand what we sense.

 

Once I had hypoglycemia and at the end of a 5-hour glucose tolerance test,

where they fill you full of sugar and watch to see what happens, I was

asleep on an examining table in a small room. A nurse woke me up and

asked, "Do you know where you are?" I said "Yes" automatically, but I

didn't know anything. I was seeing these white things - a white place, a

figure in white - didn't even understand that much. Just staring, not

comprehending. Then my hand jogged my glasses, or maybe she handed them to

me. Holding my glasses and putting them on jogged my brain somehow and I

remembered hospital... nurse... My equipment had been short-circuited, I

guess... or maybe the link between the perceiving equipment and the

understanding equipment. :))

>>It occurs to me that sometimes in meditation I hear a tone in each ear, and

>>they're slightly different - not the same tone. I pull them together until

>>they're the same - for balance and alignment. But I wonder if using two

>>different tones - leaving them different and somehow using the difference -

>>would (or does without our awareness) help in distance perception.

>

>That reminds me of this new kind of psychological therapy called EMDR

>(www.emdr.com). It is effective for past traumas like abuse as a child,

>and I know two people who have been made much happier by it. It uses this

>principle, though through vision. By aligning the eyes with an uneven,

>then even row of flickering lights, the oculomotor movements tend to smooth

>out the brainwaves and calm the emotions.

 

Interesting! Which reminds me of an autistic child I knew who was going

for sound therapy. They would put big earphones on her for a while. It

didn't matter what she did, as long as she had the earphones on. They were

using sounds on the brain, but I don't know any more about it and don't

remember what it was called. If anyone wants to know more, you could look

on some of the autism sites.

 

Love,

Dharma

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