Guest guest Posted August 10, 2001 Report Share Posted August 10, 2001 I have gained a lot of insights from my study of Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism. However the explanation for not being conscious or aware or even a witness during deep sleep does not make sense. In fact the total absence of awareness during deep sleep suggests that other than the workings of our conscious mind we do not exist! Thus we are just a projection of our brain as the scientists are insisting. Any explanation will be helpful. ______________________ With Love, Cyber Dervish ```````````````````````````````````````` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 On 8/11/01 at 5:02 AM Jan Sultan wrote: ºI have gained a lot of insights from my study of Advaita Vedanta and ºBuddhism. However the explanation for not being conscious or aware or even ºa witness during deep sleep does not make sense. It does - but experiential verification is hard to get at º ºIn fact the total absence of awareness during deep sleep suggests that ºother than the workings of our conscious mind we do not exist! Thus we are ºjust a projection of our brain as the scientists are insisting. º ºAny explanation will be helpful. Deep sleep is but a veil - the one i refer to as "the coin with sides of pleasure and pain". And when this veil has dissolved, deep sleep while yet awake remains - dissolving this veil is the "goal" of transfiguration. Comprising the total of "human functioning", its dissolution is rare, could be classified as "not in the interest of nature" and the Buddha hardly made any comments about it, although he was "more" than familiar with it.. So it remains an undocumented discovery left to those, for whom "nondual" has become "too" trivial but still are curious Love, Jan º º______________________ ºWith Love, ºCyber Dervish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, one is in deep sleep and yet fully awake. Have you read my post on The Deep Awake? Ramana Maharshi has addressed these issues clearly. Intellect can only go up to a point. Love Harsha Jan Sultan [swork] Friday, August 10, 2001 10:03 PM sworkalpha Deep Sleep I have gained a lot of insights from my study of Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism. However the explanation for not being conscious or aware or even a witness during deep sleep does not make sense. In fact the total absence of awareness during deep sleep suggests that other than the workings of our conscious mind we do not exist! Thus we are just a projection of our brain as the scientists are insisting. Any explanation will be helpful. ______________________ With Love, Cyber Dervish ```````````````````````````````````````` /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 Intellect can go quite a "distance": it is a matter of "when", not of "if", that it will be discovered that any samadhi, obliterating functioning is a veil too - something that will become evident when having had experience with samadhis while working, walking etc. When pain exceeds a threshold, fainting will happen - shutting off the sensory. When bliss exceeds a threshold, samadhi will happen - shutting off the sensory too. Transfiguration is the process of heightening those thresholds - until gone. Love, Jan On 8/11/01 at 8:32 AM Harsha wrote: ºIn Nirvikalpa Samadhi, one is in deep sleep and yet fully awake. Have you ºread my post on The Deep Awake? Ramana Maharshi has addressed these issues ºclearly. Intellect can only go up to a point. º ºLove ºHarsha º º ºJan Sultan [swork] ºFriday, August 10, 2001 10:03 PM ºsworkalpha º Deep Sleep º º ºI have gained a lot of insights from my study of Advaita Vedanta and ºBuddhism. However the explanation for not being conscious or aware or even ºa witness during deep sleep does not make sense. º ºIn fact the total absence of awareness during deep sleep suggests that ºother than the workings of our conscious mind we do not exist! Thus we are ºjust a projection of our brain as the scientists are insisting. º ºAny explanation will be helpful. º º______________________ ºWith Love, ºCyber Dervish º```````````````````````````````````````` º º º º/join º º º º º ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside ºback into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than ºthe ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of ºAwareness. ºAwareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is ºwhere the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal ºBeing. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, ºspontaneously ºarising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. º º º ºYour use of is subject to º º º º º/join º º º º º ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and ºsubside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not ºdifferent than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the ºnature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. ºIt is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the ºFinality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of ºSelf-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome ºall to a. º º º ºYour use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 , Jan Sultan <swork@a...> wrote: > I have gained a lot of insights from my study of Advaita Vedanta and > Buddhism. However the explanation for not being conscious or aware or even > a witness during deep sleep does not make sense. > > In fact the total absence of awareness during deep sleep suggests that > other than the workings of our conscious mind we do not exist! Thus we are > just a projection of our brain as the scientists are insisting. > > Any explanation will be helpful. Namaste Jan, As we are not fully aware in deep sleep it must contain a thought of some kind. I like to think it is a thought of ignorance or not thinking. A meditation on sleep or ignorance. It is the last veil. However I am not sure where bliss comes into it. For sometimes on awakening from deep sleep quickly, one will experience the memory of bliss whilst sleeping. So it is still an experience. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose hahahahaah.......ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 , Jan Sultan <swork@a...> wrote:> I have gained a lot of insights from my study of Advaita Vedanta and > Buddhism. However the explanation for not being conscious or aware or even > a witness during deep sleep does not make sense.> > In fact the total absence of awareness during deep sleep suggests that > other than the workings of our conscious mind we do not exist! Thus we are > just a projection of our brain as the scientists are insisting.> > Any explanation will be helpful.Namaste Jan,As we are not fully aware in deep sleep it must contain a thought of some kind. I like to think it is a thought of ignorance or not thinking. A meditation on sleep or ignorance. It is the last veil. However I am not sure where bliss comes into it. For sometimes on awakening from deep sleep quickly, one will experience the memory of bliss whilst sleeping. So it is still an experience. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose hahahahaah.......ONS.......Tony.~~~~~~ Glo: For whatever this may be worth, I once had a discussion with someone who kept insisting that death must be like the "deeper unconsciousness" of being under anesthesia, far less conscious than deep sleep even. I asked him how he could even know there was a difference unless in some way he had awareness in both. Duh, what was he remembering to compare one with the other? Or how did he know it was deeper? I have lost bodily consciousness and still been quite awake, and not at all like dreaming. Anyway, are you saying "a thought of not thinking" might be like a state prior to thought arising? Still it is a state or condition that can be known/experienced, as is bliss. I ran across this old answer of Dan's to a similar question, so here it is. bot="HTMLMarkup" endspan -->ThatYou are the One, Neo. You are the one defining deep sleep and consciousness. You imagine yourself as someone who is subject to deep sleep, someone who notices consciousness in one situation and not in another. Who is the one who defines deep sleep, consciousness, and the "subject" who experiences different states? That One is not in any state or condition. Know/be the One that thou art. There is only That. That is not something that is in one state and not in another. Within That, all states and conditions arise. That itself has not a state and is conditionless. That art Thou. All this is That. There is no That to be seen or understood anywhere. Not to be seen or comprehended, no where known, That is self-nature, self-evident but ignored when caught up in ideas, states, and things. Top http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada/berkow1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 Lynette Lovers embrace within the fold of glorious union, dissolve into my eyes of nothing beyond I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 At 8/11/2001-05:34 PM, you wrote: > "Harsha" <harsha-hkl >RE: Deep Sleep > >In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, one is in deep sleep and yet fully awake. Have you >read my post on The Deep Awake? Ramana Maharshi has addressed these issues >clearly. Intellect can only go up to a point. > >Love >Harsha Hello Harsha, Where can I see this article? I went to your site but could not find such an article. Please give exact link to article or post it here for everybodys benefit. Thank you for the fantastic job that you are doing. ______________________ With Love, Cyber Dervish ```````````````````````````````````````` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 Dear Harsha, You wrote: > In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, one is in deep sleep and yet fully awake. > Have you read my post on The Deep Awake? > Ramana Maharshi has addressed these issues clearly. > Intellect can only go up to a point. In what I 'm going to write to Jennifer, I will also touch upon Nirvikalpa Samadhi. You may have noticed how I went into the "subject" matter (Who am I?), by pointing at a baby's acute awareness at birth. Wim: > A baby then, is born with unquestioned knowing, > there is no doubt about who it knows itself to be, > it IS ITSELF By the way, I write this from active personal memory, as much as possible verified with my parents. I had long talks with my mother who just visited Victoria from Holland for a month, just like I had long talks with my father before he passed on last year. > In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, one is in deep sleep and yet fully awake. I will deal with the Nirvikalpa Samadhi topic shortly (not in this post)... many will be surprised as to the nature of it... so many misnomers around that topic..., the simplicity... It's going to be neat... By the way, I hope that my accounts to Jennifer will not be seen as material to be argued about. Anybody who feels an urge to argue what they read in my pieces to her, better filter my messages out... as experience is not arguable... What I'll write will also be very simple, however wordy it may seem. :-) One will notice how I will expand on some views which may seem to go against the grain of traditional and current notions about enlightenment and realization... just bear with me... I will not bring in theoretical, spiritual or religious "ideas" unless I have personally experimented with their tangible, that is sensorially perceived, underlying energetic dynamics. If I should come up with something "theoretical" - I hope I will not - it would be based on first hand personal experience... it will be according to a very "subjective scientific" method. :-) Scientific??? Subjective??? Yes, because everything I have found in my experiments, was either at some point a repeat and corroboration of someone else's discovery, or has been successfully repeated and corroborated by someone else. The measuring instrument in this subjective scientific endeavour, is an inner instrument. It measures doubt. (I believe that Tony has just discovered it, good for him.) When I personally notice there is no doubt in what I bring up, it stands. When I have the slightest doubt... it already has no significance. Such a "subjective scientific method" can of course only be done when doubt is not compulsive, obsessive or habitual. I will endeavour to quote as little as possible, and I will try to use only English (OK, a bit of Dutch at times.) and very little Sanskrit. Love, Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release 8/7/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2001 Report Share Posted August 12, 2001 , JustLynette@a... wrote: > I've been listening to all the comments on deep sleep.... All I gotta say, is > our bodies need it, and its the best time for our spirits to go take a nice > long walk... There have been several occasions that I have visted friends > while I was in a deep sleep.. Whether or not our conscious minds in a state > of sleep exist or not, or whether we exist or not in that state, is really > beyond questioning.... We sleep, we walk, we experience things in that deep > sleep. And at this point in my life, that is all I need to know. > > Lynette > > Lovers embrace within the fold of glorious union, > dissolve into my eyes of nothing beyond > I am. Namaste Lynette, One cannot visit in deep sleep only in the dream sleep......ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 And then there is Yoga Nidra. This mode of sleep allows the yogin to sleep consciously. In this way, you can practice yoga 24 hours a day. You are aware that you are sleeping, you recieve all the benefits of sleep, but you maintain consciousness. It is very refreshing. Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 , hamsayogini@a... wrote: > And then there is Yoga Nidra. > > This mode of sleep allows the yogin to sleep consciously. In this > way, you can practice yoga 24 hours a day. > > You are aware that you are sleeping, you recieve all the benefits of > sleep, but you maintain consciousness. > > It is very refreshing. > > Om Santi ... > Yogini Sakti Namaste Yogini, Awareness in yoga nidra would turn it into a samadhi(vedantic not buddhistic)......ONS...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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