Doer, Non-doer. Freewill or just here for the ride?

[Guest guest]

Another thing that I have failed to get a clear answer on is the question

about freewill.

 

Are we here just as witnesses, observers and nothing we do influences any

worldly outcome as suggested by Ramana and Nisargadatta.

 

Or do we have an active role to play to make this world a better place as

suggested by others?

 

Your opinions and explanations will be highly appreciated.

 

______________________

With Love,

Cyber Dervish

````````````````````````````````````````

[Guest guest]

On 8/11/01 at 5:04 AM Jan Sultan wrote:

 

ºAnother thing that I have failed to get a clear answer on is the question

ºabout freewill.

º

ºAre we here just as witnesses, observers and nothing we do influences any

ºworldly outcome as suggested by Ramana and Nisargadatta.

 

A witness of what? Tendencies rising as responses for instance?

Did you ever here of the dictum that observing influences the

observed, like is documented in quantum physics? So what does that make

of witnessing?

º

ºOr do we have an active role to play to make this world a better place as

ºsuggested by others?

 

Isn't that a matter of identifying with "acting out tendencies", not

observing their arising? The laugh, that it wouldn't make a difference

with "mere" witnessing isn't it? Because, there is no such thing as

"just" witnessing.

º

ºYour opinions and explanations will be highly appreciated.

 

In order to do the dishes, one doesn't have to be familiar with

X-ray diffraction patterns of quartz...

Only studying those patterns, the dishes surely will start to pile up

 

Love,

Jan

º

º______________________

ºWith Love,

ºCyber Dervish

º````````````````````````````````````````

[Guest guest]

, Jan Sultan <swork@a...> wrote:

> Another thing that I have failed to get a clear answer on is the

question

> about freewill.

 

Namaste Jan,

 

Without getting into the non dual vndims debate lets assume creation

has some validity.

 

However time has no validity therefore there is no free will--simple

see! Everything happens at once so to speak.

 

Ramana said even picking up a dropped handerkerchief or something is

preordained.

 

We do all the the things and think all the thought we are supposed to

for we are to take responsibility.

 

To take the karma for the action, although the action has already

taken place so to speak.

 

So if you decide to do something, that was the decision you made

anyway!!!You just took karmic responsibility for taking it.

 

This is why surrendering the fruits of actions is important, for they

aren't your action, just your karma.

 

Lives also are like spokes on a wheel all lived at once but we

concentrate our attention on one spoke/life at a time. Action is the

same. There is no free will only the illusion of to receive the

karma!!.......Surrender saranagathi!!!!!!!!ONS......Tony.