Shabda and Jnana

[Guest guest]

Having no experience with Shabda meditation, I cannot pass judgement on

its efficacy. However, it should be noted that any sort of sound that

is experienced by the meditator exists within the realm of Maya. That

is, while Shabda meditation may offer the meditator a kind of touch-

stone sensation to go by, the fact remains that it is only a sensation.

The jnani eschews all sensation, whether in their waking, dreaming,

or meditative life. All sensation exists within the realm of Maya.

The jnani discards any and all phenomenal experience, as the Self is

not a phenomenon, and the experience of such does not lead to Self

realization.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody,

>Having no experience with Shabda meditation, I cannot pass judgement on

>its efficacy. However, it should be noted that any sort of sound that

>is experienced by the meditator exists within the realm of Maya. That

>is, while Shabda meditation may offer the meditator a kind of touch-

>stone sensation to go by,

 

It is not necessary to sit down to "do" a "Shabda meditation." But when

one is in meditation and a strong sound or note comes in the ears, it is

often a vibration that will lead to a certain level or state of

consciousness if focussed on and pursued. Trusting guidance, I pursue such

tones.

 

I might add that many use a focus on one thing to concentrate, to focus the

consciousness and withdraw it from everything else. In teaching

meditation, I use a symbol to focus on. But focussing on a single tone is

quite effective to withdraw attention from anything else at all.

>the fact remains that it is only a sensation.

>The jnani eschews all sensation, whether in their waking, dreaming,

>or meditative life.

 

Not so. As long as the jnani is incarnate, he is using bodies that are

part of these lower planes. He simply understands sensation and the world

in an entirely different way, and that makes all the difference.

 

Wasn't Ramani a jnani? When someone spoke to him, didn't he hear? And speak?

>All sensation exists within the realm of Maya.

>The jnani discards any and all phenomenal experience,

 

Not so. Didn't Ramana continue to live in the body for many years? Didn't

he experience phenomena?

 

Or do you think a jnani should simply disappear from the manifested world

at the instant he becomes jnani? Or disappear inward like the Masts of

India?

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

On 8/12/01 at 3:23 AM jodyrrr wrote:

 

ºHaving no experience with Shabda meditation, I cannot pass judgement on

ºits efficacy.

 

Neither can i - but the sounds and their "why" can be commented on.

 

º However, it should be noted that any sort of sound that

ºis experienced by the meditator exists within the realm of Maya.

 

That goes for the entirety of the sensory - ephemeral.

 

ºThat

ºis, while Shabda meditation may offer the meditator a kind of touch-

ºstone sensation to go by, the fact remains that it is only a sensation.

 

The sounds serve as a means to remain onepointed - fixed on hearing

no matter what happens. What few know is that many sounds will be heard

without any practice - the simplified explanation, that veils are disappearing,

producing sensory side-effects (can be visions too). Not to forget touch-like

sensations, like crawling ants over the spine etc... All the same: just

side-effects.

 

ºThe jnani eschews all sensation, whether in their waking, dreaming,

ºor meditative life.

 

In the course of events, any practitioner is likely to experience that the

pleasures

of the senses are are less than a drop in the ocean as compared to the bliss of

Self.

But that will pass too, and then senses can neither distract from that bliss nor

are distinct from it.

Even that won't last when the veil of pleasure and pain dissolves...

 

ºAll sensation exists within the realm of Maya.

ºThe jnani discards any and all phenomenal experience, as the Self is

ºnot a phenomenon, and the experience of such does not lead to Self

ºrealization.

 

Discarding sensory experience can be but one of the practices to establish the

bliss of Self.

When that is unbroken, no sense experience can delude, neither add nor subtract,

and states like sleeping or dreaming have become irrelevant.

The Self cannot realize the Self; the mind-body seemingly does so by first

recognizing,

then eliminating whatever hinders 'final beatitude'.

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

, Dharma <deva@L...> wrote:

> Hi Jody,

>

> >Having no experience with Shabda meditation, I cannot pass judgement on

> >its efficacy. However, it should be noted that any sort of sound that

> >is experienced by the meditator exists within the realm of Maya. That

> >is, while Shabda meditation may offer the meditator a kind of touch-

> >stone sensation to go by,

>

> It is not necessary to sit down to "do" a "Shabda meditation." But when

> one is in meditation and a strong sound or note comes in the ears, it is

> often a vibration that will lead to a certain level or state of

> consciousness if focussed on and pursued. Trusting guidance, I pursue such

> tones.

 

These tones are sensation. Sensation is fixed in the mind. It

cannot lead beyond the mind.

> I might add that many use a focus on one thing to concentrate, to focus the

> consciousness and withdraw it from everything else. In teaching

> meditation, I use a symbol to focus on. But focussing on a single tone is

> quite effective to withdraw attention from anything else at all.

 

I understand the concept of a positive object for meditation.

However, saying a mantra which one is initiated to and finding

a "tone" in your head to follow are two different cases.

> >the fact remains that it is only a sensation.

> >The jnani eschews all sensation, whether in their waking, dreaming,

> >or meditative life.

>

> Not so. As long as the jnani is incarnate, he is using bodies that are

> part of these lower planes. He simply understands sensation and the world

> in an entirely different way, and that makes all the difference.

 

The body remains until it dies. However, the Self has no attachment

whatsoever to the body. What is of the body is of the body and the

rest of Maya. The Self remains alone.

 

The point I'm making is that if we follow tones in our mind, we

are following Maya. While you may contend it leads to higher

planes, these planes are also in Maya, and no closer to the Self

than the lower planes.

> Wasn't Ramani a jnani? When someone spoke to him, didn't he hear? And speak?

 

As I said, when a body exists, it exists. When it goes away, it does.

This has no effect on the Self.

 

Ramana was a sage. He had come to Self realization while still in

his body. That doesn't mean he employed sensation in his meditation,

and he certainly didn't recommend it as a technique to others.

> >All sensation exists within the realm of Maya.

> >The jnani discards any and all phenomenal experience,

>

> Not so. Didn't Ramana continue to live in the body for many years? Didn't

> he experience phenomena?

 

Phenomena is experienced by the mind and the senses. While the

being we refer to as Ramana had a body for a time, he was not

identified with its mind or senses. We can say "Ramana" heard

this or felt that, but in actuality as the Self there was no

person and there was no experiencing any phenomena. Silence

was all that existed at the core of Ramana.

> Or do you think a jnani should simply disappear from the manifested world

> at the instant he becomes jnani? Or disappear inward like the Masts of

> India?

 

No, I think the jnani should eschew any meditation technique that

involves following and/or paying attention to phenomena outside of

what one has been initiated to.

[Guest guest]

, jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> Having no experience with Shabda meditation, I cannot pass judgement

on

> its efficacy. However, it should be noted that any sort of sound

that

> is experienced by the meditator exists within the realm of Maya.

That

> is, while Shabda meditation may offer the meditator a kind of touch-

> stone sensation to go by, the fact remains that it is only a

sensation.

> The jnani eschews all sensation, whether in their waking, dreaming,

> or meditative life. All sensation exists within the realm of Maya.

> The jnani discards any and all phenomenal experience, as the Self is

> not a phenomenon, and the experience of such does not lead to Self

> realization.

 

Namaste.

 

MA---What is not YA------what is........ONS......Tony

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody,

>These tones are sensation. Sensation is fixed in the mind. It

>cannot lead beyond the mind.

 

There's a difference between the tones that come into your ears from

outside and the inner sounds. We are speaking of vibrations, and they can

certainly lead above the intellectual mind. I know this from personal

experience.

 

Music has always presented an unusual problem in the field of aesthetics,

because it is the only art that does not use symbols. With the visual arts

we can speak of the symbols used and how they work, etc. But not with

music! Schopenhauer said that music moves the Will directly. And, the

last I heard, that's pretty much the definitive statement on it. It bears

thinking about.

>> I might add that many use a focus on one thing to concentrate, to focus the

>> consciousness and withdraw it from everything else. In teaching

>> meditation, I use a symbol to focus on. But focussing on a single tone is

>> quite effective to withdraw attention from anything else at all.

>

>I understand the concept of a positive object for meditation.

>However, saying a mantra which one is initiated to and finding

>a "tone" in your head to follow are two different cases.

 

It is not important what you focus on in meditation - it doesn't matter at

all. It is only important to focus on one thing... until the time comes

when you don't need the practice of focus.

>snip<

>No, I think the jnani should eschew any meditation technique that

>involves following and/or paying attention to phenomena outside of

>what one has been initiated to.

 

I understand. You have been initiated in a certain practice, and you feel

that you should accept nothing else. That's fine, I'm not trying to change

your practice or persuade you to try something different. But this is a

big group, and we have varied experiences and expertise. This is a place

where we can discuss various methods. But there is no need for you to even

read about practices that vary from your own.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

, Dharma <deva@L...> wrote:

> Hi Jody,

>

> >These tones are sensation. Sensation is fixed in the mind. It

> >cannot lead beyond the mind.

>

> There's a difference between the tones that come into your ears from

> outside and the inner sounds. We are speaking of vibrations, and they can

> certainly lead above the intellectual mind. I know this from personal

> experience.

 

Any tone, whether "inner" or outer, is a phenomenon, and therefore

Maya. The jnani generally eschews all phenomena, including any and

all meditation experiences, of which your sound is a part.

> Music has always presented an unusual problem in the field of aesthetics,

> because it is the only art that does not use symbols. With the visual arts

> we can speak of the symbols used and how they work, etc. But not with

> music! Schopenhauer said that music moves the Will directly. And, the

> last I heard, that's pretty much the definitive statement on it. It bears

> thinking about.

 

Perhaps. However, from the perspective of the jnani, it is just more

Maya. This isn't to say that the jnani shouldn't enjoy music, just

that s/he shouldn't expect anything from it besides enjoyment.

> >> I might add that many use a focus on one thing to concentrate, to focus the

> >> consciousness and withdraw it from everything else. In teaching

> >> meditation, I use a symbol to focus on. But focussing on a single tone is

> >> quite effective to withdraw attention from anything else at all.

> >

> >I understand the concept of a positive object for meditation.

> >However, saying a mantra which one is initiated to and finding

> >a "tone" in your head to follow are two different cases.

>

> It is not important what you focus on in meditation - it doesn't matter at

> all. It is only important to focus on one thing... until the time comes

> when you don't need the practice of focus.

 

Good point. However, I'd have to place listening to sounds, whether

"inner" or outer, further down the list of preferable meditation

objects, at least from the perspective of a jnani.

> >snip<

> >No, I think the jnani should eschew any meditation technique that

> >involves following and/or paying attention to phenomena outside of

> >what one has been initiated to.

>

> I understand. You have been initiated in a certain practice, and you feel

> that you should accept nothing else. That's fine, I'm not trying to change

> your practice or persuade you to try something different. But this is a

> big group, and we have varied experiences and expertise. This is a place

> where we can discuss various methods. But there is no need for you to even

> read about practices that vary from your own.

>

> Love,

> Dharma

 

It's not about what I practice, it's about the general parameters

of jnana yoga and what that entails. The only point I'm making is

that Shabda meditation is *not* jnana yoga. In fact, it is quite

far from jnana yoga in terms of technique and result, at least from

what I understand about Sant Mat.

 

I've come to know this list as a place where jnana yoga is discussed.

You've introduced Shabda meditation to this list, which is fine.

However, it is just as appropriate for me to point out that Shabda

meditation is *not* derived from jnana yoga, nor should it be

considered jnana yoga. That's all I'm trying to say.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody,

>> I understand. You have been initiated in a certain practice, and you feel

>> that you should accept nothing else. That's fine, I'm not trying to change

>> your practice or persuade you to try something different. But this is a

>> big group, and we have varied experiences and expertise. This is a place

>> where we can discuss various methods. But there is no need for you to even

>> read about practices that vary from your own.

>

>It's not about what I practice, it's about the general parameters

>of jnana yoga and what that entails. The only point I'm making is

>that Shabda meditation is *not* jnana yoga. In fact, it is quite

>far from jnana yoga in terms of technique and result, at least from

>what I understand about Sant Mat.

 

I didn't say it was Jnana Yoga, and it doesn't matter to me. I am a

teacher, and I use any methods and techniques that I find useful. Not

every student is suited for the same methods. I like to have many methods

and techniques available for whatever situation may arise with a student.

>I've come to know this list as a place where jnana yoga is discussed.

>You've introduced Shabda meditation to this list,

 

If you will look at the posts again, you'll see that I didn't introduce the

subject here. I re-posted the Matrka/Shabda material that was written and

posted here by Bhaktananda Marcus, who was a student of Swami Nityananda.

 

which is fine.

>However, it is just as appropriate for me to point out that Shabda

>meditation is *not* derived from jnana yoga, nor should it be

>considered jnana yoga. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

This list has never been limited to those who practice Jnana Yoga, and the

discussion has never been limited to Jnana Yoga.

 

Here is the description of the list from our home page at . I hope

you'll read it carefully; it is quite beautiful.

>This spiritual discussion group is an open Satsang and is blessed by Sri

>Ramana Maharshi, the great Jnani Sage of Arunachala. a is in

>the best tradition of a joyous spiritual fellowship for facilitating the

>Recognition of the Eternal Reality that is One's Own Self. "I Am That!"

>This is the uncompromising, simple, and yet Radical Truth proclaimed in a

>variety of ways by the ancient and modern Sages of Hinduism, Jainism,

>Buddhism, and Taoism. In Advaita Vedanta, the highest teaching emphasizes

>the complete identity of the Individual Soul with the Supreme Soul. In

>Tibetan Buddhism, Dzogchen is considered the supreme teaching and

>represents the nondual focus on one's innate wakefulness. How beautiful

>the variety of expressions in so many

different traditions! We embrace this variety with great joy and in

fellowship in a.

>

>No religion or teacher or tradition has a monopoly on the Essential Truth

>of Reality which is Our Own Nature. In this context, a

>focuses on the aspirations and experiences of individuals on the spiritual

>path. Everyone interested in any of the Shiva and Shakti traditions, and

>the related yogic and tantric paths as well as those practicing primarily

>the cognitive methods of the pure nondual teachings of great Jnanis such

>as Ramana Maharshi are welcome to join. The discussions are typically

>expected to focus on Self-Realization, Kundalini Shakti and Its

>Manifestations, God-Realization, the Goddess, Enlightenment, and various

>types of Samadhis (Savikalpa and Nirvikalpa). Discussion of various

>teachers and teachings can also be enriching as long as there is mutual

>respect and a feeling of amity in the conversation. Humor and poetry and

>other artistic expressions of the spiritual life are encouraged and

>supported. May God Bless everyone with Peace, Joy, and Understanding. May

>we all nourish and heal each other in the spirit of Compassion, Wisdom and

>Love. OM Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. Peace to all living beings.

[Guest guest]

, Dharma <deva@L...> wrote:

> Hi Jody,

>

> >> I understand. You have been initiated in a certain practice, and you feel

> >> that you should accept nothing else. That's fine, I'm not trying to change

> >> your practice or persuade you to try something different. But this is a

> >> big group, and we have varied experiences and expertise. This is a place

> >> where we can discuss various methods. But there is no need for you to even

> >> read about practices that vary from your own.

> >

> >It's not about what I practice, it's about the general parameters

> >of jnana yoga and what that entails. The only point I'm making is

> >that Shabda meditation is *not* jnana yoga. In fact, it is quite

> >far from jnana yoga in terms of technique and result, at least from

> >what I understand about Sant Mat.

>

> I didn't say it was Jnana Yoga, and it doesn't matter to me. I am a

> teacher, and I use any methods and techniques that I find useful. Not

> every student is suited for the same methods. I like to have many methods

> and techniques available for whatever situation may arise with a student.

 

Fair enough. If you believe yourself to be qualified to teach

meditation here, I suppose there are some who will accept what

you are offering as appropriate.

> >I've come to know this list as a place where jnana yoga is discussed.

> >You've introduced Shabda meditation to this list,

>

> If you will look at the posts again, you'll see that I didn't introduce the

> subject here. I re-posted the Matrka/Shabda material that was written and

> posted here by Bhaktananda Marcus, who was a student of Swami Nityananda.

 

Ok, we'll say you've reiterated Shabda meditation. It still

lies outside jnana yoga.

> which is fine.

> >However, it is just as appropriate for me to point out that Shabda

> >meditation is *not* derived from jnana yoga, nor should it be

> >considered jnana yoga. That's all I'm trying to say.

>

> This list has never been limited to those who practice Jnana Yoga, and the

> discussion has never been limited to Jnana Yoga.

>

> Here is the description of the list from our home page at . I hope

> you'll read it carefully; it is quite beautiful.

>

> >This spiritual discussion group is an open Satsang and is blessed by Sri

> >Ramana Maharshi, the great Jnani Sage of Arunachala.

 

Ramana was a jnani and eschewed the kind of meditation of which

Shabda is a part, I believe.

> >a is in

> >the best tradition of a joyous spiritual fellowship for facilitating the

> >Recognition of the Eternal Reality that is One's Own Self. "I Am That!"

> >This is the uncompromising, simple, and yet Radical Truth proclaimed in a

> >variety of ways by the ancient and modern Sages of Hinduism, Jainism,

> >Buddhism, and Taoism. In Advaita Vedanta, the highest teaching emphasizes

> >the complete identity of the Individual Soul with the Supreme Soul.

 

Advaita Vedanta does not include techniques like Shabda meditation,

although we'd be hard pressed to say what kind of meditation it

employs.

> >In

> >Tibetan Buddhism, Dzogchen is considered the supreme teaching and

> >represents the nondual focus on one's innate wakefulness. How beautiful

> >the variety of expressions in so many

> different traditions! We embrace this variety with great joy and in

> fellowship in a.

 

As Shabda is one of the varieties of meditation, here is the clause

we are looking for!

> >No religion or teacher or tradition has a monopoly on the Essential Truth

> >of Reality which is Our Own Nature. In this context, a

> >focuses on the aspirations and experiences of individuals on the spiritual

> >path. Everyone interested in any of the Shiva and Shakti traditions, and

> >the related yogic and tantric paths as well as those practicing primarily

> >the cognitive methods of the pure nondual teachings of great Jnanis such

> >as Ramana Maharshi are welcome to join.

 

Shabda meditation does not fall under these headings, imo.

> >The discussions are typically

> >expected to focus on Self-Realization, Kundalini Shakti and Its

> >Manifestations, God-Realization, the Goddess, Enlightenment, and various

> >types of Samadhis (Savikalpa and Nirvikalpa). Discussion of various

> >teachers and teachings can also be enriching as long as there is mutual

> >respect and a feeling of amity in the conversation. Humor and poetry and

> >other artistic expressions of the spiritual life are encouraged and

> >supported. May God Bless everyone with Peace, Joy, and Understanding. May

> >we all nourish and heal each other in the spirit of Compassion, Wisdom and

> >Love. OM Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. Peace to all living beings.

 

You were correct, it was very beautiful.

 

As I've said in an earlier post, I respect your right to offer

meditation instruction here. However, in these situations I find

myself compelled to note when techniques fall outside the purview

of jnana yoga.

 

In my opinion, Shabda meditation is less than ideal for the jnani,

for reasons I've already explained. You are a teacher of meditation.

I'm just some guy with an opinion. We can leave it up to the readers

as to what they should practice.

[Guest guest]

Whoa, Jody!

>snip<

>If you believe yourself to be qualified to teach

>meditation here, I suppose there are some who will accept what

>you are offering as appropriate.

 

You must be quite new to the list... you have misunderstood. I am just

another member of the list, not even on the Committee that manages things

when necessary. I am not teaching here, except in the way that we all

teach each other in our communication and our sharing of experience. I am

here because Harsha invited me, and I love him dearly. He is the Heart

Chakra of this sangha.

 

My students and I have a private list for our very private work and talk...

it doesn't even appear when you search for available lists.

>snip<

>As I've said in an earlier post, I respect your right to offer

>meditation instruction here.

>I am not offering meditation instruction here, just talking with my dear

>friends. I have, in the past, posted the basic method of meditation that

>I teach, in the form in which I wrote it for an on-line group of young

>parents who wanted to learn and invited me to teach. Others were posting

>similar things at the time, and it was never an attempt to sway anyone.

>It was a sharing.

 

The world is so large, Jody, and there are so many people here and

elsewhere. Why do you think I would want everyone to follow my path? I

love the diversity of this sangha.

>However, in these situations I find

>myself compelled to note when techniques fall outside the purview

>of jnana yoga.

>

>In my opinion, Shabda meditation is less than ideal for the jnani,

>for reasons I've already explained.

 

Fortunately, the jnanis here will not be influenced by your pronouncements

of what a jnani should and should not do.

>From the list description again:

>>How beautiful the variety of expressions in so many

different traditions! We embrace this variety with great joy and in

fellowship in a.

>>

>>No religion or teacher or tradition has a monopoly on the Essential Truth

>>of Reality which is Our Own Nature. In this context, a

>>focuses on the aspirations and experiences of individuals on the

>>spiritual path.

 

>You are a teacher of meditation.

>I'm just some guy with an opinion. We can leave it up to the readers

>as to what they should practice.

 

There is no contest, Jody. I walk my own path, and I encourage everyone

else to walk his own path too.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Hi Dharma.

 

You've been quite patient with my being a stickler,

thank you.

 

I must confess I've got a bit of a prejudice against

anything derived from the Sant Mat tradition. In my

mind Shabda meditation is associated with Sant Mat,

and I find Sant Mat to be as far from jnana yoga as

meditation traditions get.

 

Posting to lists and the discussions that ensue are

very helpful to me as I ferret out the attachments to

individual identity that remain in my life, of which

there are a few. The chip on my shoulder is indicative

of this, and sometimes I forget it is there. You have

shown it to me gently, and for this I am grateful.

 

Thank you and take care.

 

--jody.

[Guest guest]

This is why I love jody. Great degree of self-awareness, honesty,

humility, and fire!

 

Maybe he reads Nero Wolfe too.....

 

Love,

 

--Greg

 

At 05:58 PM 8/13/01 -0000, jodyrrr wrote:

>Hi Dharma.

>

>You've been quite patient with my being a stickler,

>thank you.

>

>I must confess I've got a bit of a prejudice against

>anything derived from the Sant Mat tradition. In my

>mind Shabda meditation is associated with Sant Mat,

>and I find Sant Mat to be as far from jnana yoga as

>meditation traditions get.

>

>Posting to lists and the discussions that ensue are

>very helpful to me as I ferret out the attachments to

>individual identity that remain in my life, of which

>there are a few. The chip on my shoulder is indicative

>of this, and sometimes I forget it is there. You have

>shown it to me gently, and for this I am grateful.

>

>Thank you and take care.

>

>--jody.

>

>

>/join

>

>

>

>

>

>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is

Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality

of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge,

spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to

a.

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Gregory Goode <goode@D...>

wrote:

> This is why I love jody. Great degree of self-awareness,

> honesty, humility, and fire!

>

> Maybe he reads Nero Wolfe too.....

>

> Love,

>

> --Greg

 

Well Greg, I'm afraid I have to take some of the luster off

of your review of me when I confess to not being a Nero Wolfe

reader.

 

Can I restore it by catching the TV version this week?

 

--jody.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jody,

 

I know you understand these things very deeply. We both probably have even

the same chip on our shoulders! :-).

 

The dichotomy between the emphasis on meditative methodology (by a focus

on light and sound related techniques) and the emphasis on the nature of

consciousness itself which seeks such experiences, cannot be reconciled, as

no reconciliation is needed.

 

We are all aware of Yoga schools, religions, and spiritual traditions that

claim to have the "ultimate truth" as their exclusive property. Sages

established in the Truth of Self-Knowledge remain indifferent to such

things. People will be attracted to teachers and teachings that they can

understand based on their background and previous karmas.

 

Dharma has asked about the term Heart.

 

Sri Ramana used the term Heart to denote the Self, Jnana, The All. Heart in

Sanskrit comes from Hridayam. Hridayam means the Center. "Here is the

Center." Heart refers to Pure Being. Pure Awareness. The ancients called it

Sat-Chit-Ananda.

 

Those who know the Heart, know that all methods and techniques disappear

Here. All experiences of heavens and hells, and different lokas and super

conscious states meet their end in the Heart. Light and Sound and Space and

Time and the Mind itself cannot escape the pull of the Heart and become prey

to it. It is like a huge magnet. It is Grace that allows for the mind to

merge in Heart and for the total immediacy of Being to become Self-Evident.

The Heart is beyond all super conscious states. It is the core and the

foundation and the Reality from which the consciousness springs forth as

Shakti.

 

Sages who know the Heart really do not know anything else. Their mind does

not easily go into any other direction. Of course, all directions are good.

All meditative techniques produce some result and take one to some

destination. One who knows the Heart has no destination. He Is the Heart.

This is why when Sri Ramana was dying and people were asking him not to

leave, the Sage simply said, "Where am I going to go. I am Here."

 

Harsha

 

 

 

 

jodyrrr [jodyrrr]

Monday, August 13, 2001 1:59 PM

Re: Shabda and Jnana

 

 

Hi Dharma.

 

You've been quite patient with my being a stickler,

thank you.

 

I must confess I've got a bit of a prejudice against

anything derived from the Sant Mat tradition. In my

mind Shabda meditation is associated with Sant Mat,

and I find Sant Mat to be as far from jnana yoga as

meditation traditions get.

 

Posting to lists and the discussions that ensue are

very helpful to me as I ferret out the attachments to

individual identity that remain in my life, of which

there are a few. The chip on my shoulder is indicative

of this, and sometimes I forget it is there. You have

shown it to me gently, and for this I am grateful.

 

Thank you and take care.

 

--jody.

 

 

/join

 

 

 

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is

where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal

Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously

arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Yes you can!

 

At 06:41 PM 8/13/01 -0000, jodyrrr wrote:

>Well Greg, I'm afraid I have to take some of the luster off

>of your review of me when I confess to not being a Nero Wolfe

>reader.

>

>Can I restore it by catching the TV version this week?

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody,

>I must confess I've got a bit of a prejudice against

>anything derived from the Sant Mat tradition. In my

>mind Shabda meditation is associated with Sant Mat,

>and I find Sant Mat to be as far from jnana yoga as

>meditation traditions get.

 

Well, I'll confess that I know nothing at all about the Sant Mat tradition.

) The posts came from Marcus, a student of Nityananda, the guru of

Muktananda, who calls their tradition Siddha Yoga. And I seem to remember

that he mentioned especially the Kashmiri branch.

 

I forgot to mention that their tradition does use Bhakti Yoga, but I think

we can use techniques from such sources without going the Bhakti path.

Muktananda's book did show me how Bhakti Yoga works, and I see that it can

be beautiful and effective for those on that path. But as for me, I trust

that my students can contact the inner guide, the spiritual guru, Gurudev,

without me being an intermediary.

>Posting to lists and the discussions that ensue are

>very helpful to me as I ferret out the attachments to

>individual identity that remain in my life, of which

>there are a few. The chip on my shoulder is indicative

>of this, and sometimes I forget it is there. You have

>shown it to me gently, and for this I am grateful.

 

Gracious words, Jody! Thank you.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody,

>> This is why I love jody. Great degree of self-awareness,

>> honesty, humility, and fire!

>>

>> Maybe he reads Nero Wolfe too.....

>>

>> Love,

>>

>> --Greg

>

>Well Greg, I'm afraid I have to take some of the luster off

>of your review of me when I confess to not being a Nero Wolfe

>reader.

>

>Can I restore it by catching the TV version this week?

 

Maybe it will interest you in the books. Other than that, I've found

the TV series disappointing. They've tried to do a period piece, and it's

a caricature. The focus is on doing a take-off on old detective movies,

and it falls down on the main characters. Nero isn't fat enough or

brilliant enough, and Archie doesn't look like he could fight his way out

of a paper bag. )) And certainly not charm all the women in sight!

 

Oh well, there was once even a comic strip! ))) But come to think of it,

those characters looked much more true to the books.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

, Dharma <deva@L...> wrote:

> Hi Jody,

>

> >I must confess I've got a bit of a prejudice against

> >anything derived from the Sant Mat tradition. In my

> >mind Shabda meditation is associated with Sant Mat,

> >and I find Sant Mat to be as far from jnana yoga as

> >meditation traditions get.

>

> Well, I'll confess that I know nothing at all about the Sant Mat

tradition.

> ) The posts came from Marcus, a student of Nityananda, the guru

of

> Muktananda, who calls their tradition Siddha Yoga. And I seem to

remember

> that he mentioned especially the Kashmiri branch.

>

> I forgot to mention that their tradition does use Bhakti Yoga, but I

think

> we can use techniques from such sources without going the Bhakti

path.

> Muktananda's book did show me how Bhakti Yoga works, and I see that

it can

> be beautiful and effective for those on that path. But as for me, I

trust

> that my students can contact the inner guide, the spiritual guru,

Gurudev,

> without me being an intermediary.

>

> >Posting to lists and the discussions that ensue are

> >very helpful to me as I ferret out the attachments to

> >individual identity that remain in my life, of which

> >there are a few. The chip on my shoulder is indicative

> >of this, and sometimes I forget it is there. You have

> >shown it to me gently, and for this I am grateful.

>

> Gracious words, Jody! Thank you.

>

> Love,

> Dharma

 

Namste All,

 

Yes Mucky nanda did show how back ti yoga worked, and other

assanas also........ONS...Tony