Guest guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 Namaste All, IMO, What can be taught is a method of concentration. The process leading to meditation is withdrawal of the senses, concentration, comtemplation and then meditation. Religious teachings are useful to some people but ultimately religion is false for it is of the mind. Absorption into the Heart or Self is meditation, how can that be taught, it is beyond experience. Anyone who said they could teach that is a fraud, and not realised themselves. With regard to Nirvikalpa Samadhi, one can experience it, according to Ramana but one can still fall back. He compares it to a bucket with water being dipped in the ocean, when you pull it out the bucket is still there. However when water is put in the ocean with no bucket that's the end. There cannot possibly be any experience in this kind of Samadhi for experience is of necessity of the mind, which doesn't exist in Samadhi. Sometimes there is a memory of moving through a bliss state on return, this is called ecstasy or bliss by some people.......ONS........Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 Tony wrote [[Absorption into the Heart or Self is meditation, how can that be taught, it is beyond experience. Anyone who said they could teach that is a fraud, and not realised themselves.]] ** The all too often overlooked first step here is Mauna. Otherwise, the traditional adage applies here, "You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink." Anyone can teach anyone else how to meditate. Whether 'anyone' actually learns how this is actually done, is quite the other matter. Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 , hamsayogini@a... wrote: > Tony wrote [[Absorption into the Heart or Self is meditation, how can > that be taught, it is beyond experience. Anyone who said they could > teach that is a fraud, and not realised themselves.]] > ** The all too often overlooked first step here is Mauna. > > Otherwise, the traditional adage applies here, "You can take a horse > to water, but you cannot make them drink." > > Anyone can teach anyone else how to meditate. Whether 'anyone' > actually learns how this is actually done, is quite the other matter. > > Om Santi ... > Yogini Sakti Namaste Yogini, Well Mouna or silence could be said to be included in pratyahara or withdrawal of the senses. Again I don't believe anyone can teach anyone how to meditate, anymore than you can do another's dying for them. One can teach preliminary practices and systems of concentration, but not samadhi. Even Ramana taught 'Who am I?' but he didn't go much further except to say it wasn't literally 'who am I' as a mantra. Finding out who one is , is to follow the I feeling and find out it doesn't exist. In the Buddha's practice he taught to observe the breath and then eventually observe all the vibrations and sub atomic particle rising and falling away, and this experience leads to a realisation of who one is, and what one is not...... Vipassana.........ONS........Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 On 8/13/01 at 7:38 PM Tony O'Clery wrote: [...] ºWith regard to Nirvikalpa Samadhi, one can experience it, according to ºRamana but one can still fall back. He compares it to a bucket with ºwater being dipped in the ocean, when you pull it out the bucket is ºstill there. However when water is put in the ocean with no bucket ºthat's the end. There cannot possibly be any experience in this kind ºof Samadhi for experience is of necessity of the mind, which doesn't ºexist in Samadhi. Sometimes there is a memory of moving through a ºbliss state on return, this is called ecstasy or bliss by some ºpeople.......ONS........Tony. In Eastern meditation systems, nirvikalpa samadhi could be called a skill, without such a practice, the samadhi can develop spontaneously. I remember rather well, being satisfied with "peace" which radiated detectable, and then, being thrown into samadhi unasked, irrespective of the activity of that moment. Strange enough, the activities continued, flawless according to onlookers, but not a trace of it was left in memory... So i was glad, when that episode was over... According to Rosicrucian interpretation, Jesus resurrecting from the grave 'equals' moksha and the 'ascent to heaven', the 'spontaneous and last' nirvikalpa samadhi... If there are 'stations along the road', apparently the sequence of 'obliged' stops at them can differ widely Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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