Guest guest Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 1. Re-cognition of "the real nature" - when that happens, it is as if "That" always was, because memory has been "updated". Feelings are "as usual" as if nothing happened... Often, no "progress" follows. 2. When the real nature becomes "core" irrespective of whatever state or activity, the sense of 'i", fear, shame, guilt and embarrassment vanish and memory is updated, as if these feelings never existed. 3. When not happy with the remaining feelings, they will start to dwindle too... When gone, memory is updated as if those feelings never existed. Jan YES there are certain things that I do not experience at all anymore... Lynette Lovers embrace within the fold of glorious union, dissolve into my eyes of nothing beyond I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 On 8/14/01 at 12:28 PM michael wrote: ºHello: º ºHow does an enlightened being relate to ºhis/her feelings? That would depend, whether happy with them or not, in the sense the Buddha suggested: either rejoice them (the remaining feelings) or they will burn out. As for the Buddha, the potential to experience pleasure and pain was considered a pain itself, for him, not a choice º ºFeelings being the reactions in the body to ºthe thoughts and emotions produced by the brain. Feelings are compound structures - the unit building block, response and interpretation combined. º ºThere is an image seen here that an enlightened being ºis always in bliss and happiness. When knowing the proverbial ocean of bliss, the sensory is consisting of a few drops... But that is what the scriptures convey - although correct, feelings for a great deal determine behavior. If Ramana wouldn't have enjoyed the life at the ashram, there wouldn't have been one. When bliss and happiness are constant, feelings still can make the difference - observable in behavior. º ºYet, they are also human beings who have feelings, ºjust like the rest of us...are they not? That depends: when 'unhappy' with the remaining feelings (fear, shame, guilt, embarrassment burn our first), they will burn out too. Even without those 4 feelings, one can't be called a "normal" human being anymore as behavior and mode of thinking, hence responsiveness, will differ greatly. In fact, being unconditioned can mean a "hard" time, not being insensitive (still) to the conditioning, displayed by "society and its members" and having to function in it... But when the remainder burns out, no comparison is possible because the entire outlook on "life and the universe" will differ... º ºI would appreciate comments from anyone who would care ºto share. There is a little secret - dissolving the "i" is poetically and abundantly described in literature - tales of love and bliss. But the veil of "love & compassion", being much more tenacious than the veil of selfishness, when dissolving, gives rise to much greater bliss... Zeroing all phenomenal pleasures in succession... That is "where" there is only the ocean of bliss... º ºThank you, º ºMichael You're welcome, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 At 08:23 AM 8/14/2001, you wrote: >On 8/14/01 at 12:28 PM michael wrote: > >ºHello: >º >ºHow does an enlightened being relate to >ºhis/her feelings? > >That would depend, whether happy with them or not, >in the sense the Buddha suggested: either rejoice them >(the remaining feelings) or they will burn out. >As for the Buddha, the potential to experience pleasure >and pain was considered a pain itself, for him, not a choice >º I read that the Buddha was pained his entire life by the experience of his mother dying while giving him birth. With this in mind, did the Buddha teach that after enlightenment normal human feelings would not be felt or that they could be observed dispassionately while being felt? I am confused on this matter and would appreciate some light? Thanks, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 On 8/14/01 at 8:36 AM Michael D. Johnson wrote: ºAt 08:23 AM 8/14/2001, you wrote: º>On 8/14/01 at 12:28 PM michael wrote: º> º>ºHello: º>º º>ºHow does an enlightened being relate to º>ºhis/her feelings? º> º>That would depend, whether happy with them or not, º>in the sense the Buddha suggested: either rejoice them º>(the remaining feelings) or they will burn out. º>As for the Buddha, the potential to experience pleasure º>and pain was considered a pain itself, for him, not a choice º>º º ºI read that the Buddha was pained his entire life by the experience ºof his mother dying while giving him birth. Birth giving rise to the potential for pleasure and pain, that makes sense. º ºWith this in mind, did the Buddha teach that after enlightenment normal ºhuman feelings ºwould not be felt or that they could be observed dispassionately while ºbeing felt? That is the usual confusion with terminology - i took "enlightenment" as the equivalent of "nirvana with substratum remaining" as "self-realization" then means "re-cognition of what wasn't lost". º ºI am confused on this matter and would appreciate some light? º ºThanks, º ºMichael In that case, the shortest summary yet 1. Re-cognition of "the real nature" - when that happens, it is as if "That" always was, because memory has been "updated". Feelings are "as usual" as if nothing happened... Often, no "progress" follows. 2. When the real nature becomes "core" irrespective of whatever state or activity, the sense of 'i", fear, shame, guilt and embarrassment vanish and memory is updated, as if these feelings never existed. 3. When not happy with the remaining feelings, they will start to dwindle too... When gone, memory is updated as if those feelings never existed. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 On 8/14/01 at 10:04 AM JustLynette (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: In a message dated 8/14/01 8:55:54 AM Central Daylight Time, janb (AT) axarnet (DOT) com writes: 1. Re-cognition of "the real nature" - when that happens, it is as if "That" always was, because memory has been "updated". Feelings are "as usual" as if nothing happened... Often, no "progress" follows. 2. When the real nature becomes "core" irrespective of whatever state or activity, the sense of 'i", fear, shame, guilt and embarrassment vanish and memory is updated, as if these feelings never existed. 3. When not happy with the remaining feelings, they will start to dwindle too... When gone, memory is updated as if those feelings never existed. Jan YES there are certain things that I do not experience at all anymore... Lynette Lovers embrace within the fold of glorious union, dissolve into my eyes of nothing beyond I am. That's a good sign Lynette - that is what "transformation" is about. And as a rule, what disappears, improves functioning... Apart from a much greater sense of well-being, that in the course of events becomes less and less dependent on "external" conditions.. Love, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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