Question for self-realizers

[Guest guest]

Self-realization is thought to be possible only by surrendering all

effort to achieve it. Some think that a practice is required to

prepare the body-mind before this effortless surrendering might take

place. Both views seem valid, depending on the conditioning of the

individual body-mind.

My approach has been to assess the conditioning of my body-mind

through self-inquiry as to what is blocking the ability to surrender

all effort. Of course that would seem to put me in the bind of making

an effort to be effortless. But is that really true?

Suppose I was to discover that what was blocking and motivating my

effort to be effortless was a great deal of stress that was

heretofore unnoticed.

Would the conscious relaxation of that stress be considered an effort?

[Guest guest]

, "Ed" <eea@a...> wrote:

> Self-realization is thought to be possible only by surrendering all

effort to achieve it. Some think that a practice is required to

prepare the body-mind before this effortless surrendering might take

place. Both views seem valid, depending on the conditioning of the

individual body-mind.

>

> My approach has been to assess the conditioning of my body-mind

through self-inquiry as to what is blocking the ability to surrender

all effort. Of course that would seem to put me in the bind of making

an effort to be effortless. But is that really true?

>

> Suppose I was to discover that what was blocking and motivating my

effort to be effortless was a great deal of stress that was heretofore

unnoticed.

>

> Would the conscious relaxation of that stress be considered an

effort?

 

Namaste,

 

Try Vipassana and then see what is blocking your

progress....ONS..Tony.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Tony - Vipassana is one of the most powerful forms of

meditation you can do!

 

At 04:42 PM 8/20/01 -0000, Tony O'Clery wrote:

>

>Try Vipassana and then see what is blocking your

>progress....ONS..Tony.

[Guest guest]

, "Ed" <eea@a...> wrote:

> Self-realization is thought to be possible only by surrendering all

>effort to achieve it. Some think that a practice is required to

>prepare the body-mind before this effortless surrendering might take

>place. Both views seem valid, depending on the conditioning of the

>individual body-mind.

 

As I see it, you're touching onto the key point here.

A certain conditioning of various types, it doesn't have to be what

ppl usually think of as spiritual or religious, seems to precede the

ceasement of effort.

 

But many ppl talk of a profound thirst for realization, a very honest

and determined eagerness appearing at some point in their lives...

the search being what they really most wanted to do in life and

sometimes ditched the concentration of anything else in their lives

for a short or long period. This could of course be seen as making

effort towards self realization, but the question remains, could a

thirst like this where everything else but the search is thrown away

really be called "effort" ? Wouldn't it be more correct to say that a

need to find the way arose very strongly and simply /had/ to find

expression through their minds and bodies ?

 

I would rather call "effort" that which characterizes ppl who are not

at all interested in self realization, when they are trying to

understand the words of the sages and do not see the point in

searching at all.

 

I'd say that effortless effort, i.e. a natural expression of the need

to find the truth, will appear by itself over time and will express

itself fully over time and lead to what may still be seen as effort

but which does not feel like it for the subject.

 

 

 

Love,

 

Amanda.