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It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out? How

to end this illusion?]]

** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows

us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of

Maya, we comprehend That.

 

Om Santi ...

Yogini Sakti

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, hamsayogini@a... wrote:

> It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out?

How

> to end this illusion?]]

> ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows

> us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of

> Maya, we comprehend That.

>

> Om Santi ...

> Yogini Sakti

 

Namaste Yogini,

 

Realising Sat means there is no illusion. Maya is not the illusion

but the projector of illusion, the Goddess/Saguna. There can be no

gradual withdrawal into moksha, it rises like a spontaneous sun,

according to Ramana. There is no individual after realising Sat, or

Absolute Existence.

 

However if you mean different levels of samadhi then yes there is a

gradual realisation......ONS......Tony.

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, hamsayogini@a... wrote:

> It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out? How

> to end this illusion?]]

> ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows

> us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of

> Maya, we comprehend That.

>

> Om Santi ...

> Yogini Sakti

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say we gain power over Maya. While

we may be liberated from Her as ignorance, as individuals we must

continue to be worried about cars in the intersection. The liberated

don't have any power over these.

 

Then again, the liberated may not care if their bodies perish as the

result of a collision with one.

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, jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> , hamsayogini@a... wrote:

> > It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out?

How

> > to end this illusion?]]

> > ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This

allows

> > us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of

> > Maya, we comprehend That.

> >

> > Om Santi ...

> > Yogini Sakti

>

> I wouldn't go so far as to say we gain power over Maya. While

> we may be liberated from Her as ignorance, as individuals we must

> continue to be worried about cars in the intersection. The

liberated

> don't have any power over these.

>

> Then again, the liberated may not care if their bodies perish as the

> result of a collision with one.

 

Namaste,

 

You are getting there, the next step in thinking is to realise that

the liberated one isn't there.......ONS.......Tony.

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, "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

 

[snip]

> Namaste,

>

> You are getting there, the next step in thinking is to realise that

> the liberated one isn't there.......ONS.......Tony.

 

No thanks Tony. You can keep your NonDualThink™ to yourself.

I have the great fortune and blessing from Ma to not be infected

with such nonsense.

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, jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

>

> [snip]

>

> > Namaste,

> >

> > You are getting there, the next step in thinking is to realise

that

> > the liberated one isn't there.......ONS.......Tony.

>

> No thanks Tony. You can keep your NonDualThink™ to yourself.

> I have the great fortune and blessing from Ma to not be infected

> with such nonsense.

 

Namaste Jody,

 

If you read and study Ammachi, you would see that what I am saying is

no different. If you wish to be a dualist that is fine, good luck and

blessings. Bhakti is where you are at hopefully.......ONS....Tony.

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, "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

 

[snip]

> Namaste Jody,

>

> If you read and study Ammachi, you would see that what I am saying is

> no different. If you wish to be a dualist that is fine, good luck and

> blessings. Bhakti is where you are at hopefully.......ONS....Tony.

 

Tony, what Ammachi knows experientially, and what you are saying

(based on your speculative interpretation of her,) are two *very*

different things. In fact, they are about as far apart as the

ocean is from Nebraska.

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, jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

>

> [snip]

>

> > Namaste Jody,

> >

> > If you read and study Ammachi, you would see that what I am saying

is

> > no different. If you wish to be a dualist that is fine, good luck

and

> > blessings. Bhakti is where you are at hopefully.......ONS....Tony.

>

> Tony, what Ammachi knows experientially, and what you are saying

> (based on your speculative interpretation of her,) are two *very*

> different things. In fact, they are about as far apart as the

> ocean is from Nebraska.

 

Namaste Jody rrr,

 

I am looking at her discourses, no speculation at all she is very

clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be one. I

believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way.

hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony.

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On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery

writes:

> , jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

> >

> > [snip]

> >

[snip]

> clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be one.

 

You admit you "cannot tell"

but you are more than willing

to speculate. Confession

noted.

>

> I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way.

 

....and that speculation is

exactly as valuable as the

previous one.

> hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony.

>

Right back atcha. :-)

 

 

http://come.to/realization

http://www.atman.net/realization

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

______________

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, Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

>

> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> writes:

> > , jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

> > >

> > > [snip]

> > >

> [snip]

>

> > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be one.

>

> You admit you "cannot tell"

> but you are more than willing

> to speculate. Confession

> noted.

> >

> > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way.

>

> ...and that speculation is

> exactly as valuable as the

> previous one.

>

> > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony.

> >

> Right back atcha. :-)

 

Namaste Bruce,

 

There is only speculation.

 

Whilst one is in the bonds as Eric would say. It is the nature of the

mind to wander and doubt, however it is useful as a thorn to remove a

thorn.......ONS...Tony.

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On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:48 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery

writes:

> , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> >

> > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> > writes:

> > > , jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> > > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > [snip]

> > > >

> > [snip]

> >

> > > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be

> one.

> >

> > You admit you "cannot tell"

> > but you are more than willing

> > to speculate. Confession

> > noted.

> > >

> > > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way.

>

> >

> > ...and that speculation is

> > exactly as valuable as the

> > previous one.

> >

> > > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony.

> > >

> > Right back atcha. :-)

>

> Namaste Bruce,

>

> There is only speculation.

>

> Whilst one is in the bonds as Eric would say. It is the nature of

> the

> mind to wander and doubt, however it is useful as a thorn to remove

> a thorn.......ONS...Tony.

>

....and that too is speculation

based on hearsay. There's

nothing wrong with those for

whom maya is all there is to

"wander and doubt," but it's

unwise from them to ascend the

podium and pontificate. No

amount of sanskrit seasoning

makes speculation any more or

other than somewhat learned-

sounding speculation.

 

 

http://come.to/realization

http://www.atman.net/realization

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

______________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

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, Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

>

> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:48 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> writes:

> > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> > >

> > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> > > writes:

> > > > , jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> > > > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > [snip]

> > > > >

> > > [snip]

> > >

> > > > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be

> > one.

> > >

> > > You admit you "cannot tell"

> > > but you are more than willing

> > > to speculate. Confession

> > > noted.

> > > >

> > > > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the

way.

> >

> > >

> > > ...and that speculation is

> > > exactly as valuable as the

> > > previous one.

> > >

> > > > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony.

> > > >

> > > Right back atcha. :-)

> >

> > Namaste Bruce,

> >

> > There is only speculation.

> >

> > Whilst one is in the bonds as Eric would say. It is the nature of

> > the

> > mind to wander and doubt, however it is useful as a thorn to

remove

> > a thorn.......ONS...Tony.

> >

> ...and that too is speculation

> based on hearsay. There's

> nothing wrong with those for

> whom maya is all there is to

> "wander and doubt," but it's

> unwise from them to ascend the

> podium and pontificate. No

> amount of sanskrit seasoning

> makes speculation any more or

> other than somewhat learned-

> sounding speculation.

 

Namaste Bruce,

 

Close the list and we'll all go home then!! I don't get your point?

All is speculation, if believe Mayas illusion fine. If they don't want

to discuss its veracity then go to a bhakti list......ONS...Tony.

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On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:10:41 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery

writes:

> , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> >

> > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:48 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> > writes:

> > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery"

> <aoclery>

> > > > writes:

> > > > > , jodyrrr@h... wrote:

> > > > > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [snip]

> > > > > >

> > > > [snip]

> > > >

> > > > > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be

>

> > > one.

> > > >

> > > > You admit you "cannot tell"

> > > > but you are more than willing

> > > > to speculate. Confession

> > > > noted.

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the

> way.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > ...and that speculation is

> > > > exactly as valuable as the

> > > > previous one.

> > > >

> > > > > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony.

> > > > >

> > > > Right back atcha. :-)

> > >

> > > Namaste Bruce,

> > >

> > > There is only speculation.

> > >

> > > Whilst one is in the bonds as Eric would say. It is the nature

> of

> > > the

> > > mind to wander and doubt, however it is useful as a thorn to

> remove

> > > a thorn.......ONS...Tony.

> > >

> > ...and that too is speculation

> > based on hearsay. There's

> > nothing wrong with those for

> > whom maya is all there is to

> > "wander and doubt," but it's

> > unwise from them to ascend the

> > podium and pontificate. No

> > amount of sanskrit seasoning

> > makes speculation any more or

> > other than somewhat learned-

> > sounding speculation.

>

> Namaste Bruce,

>

> Close the list and we'll all go home then!! I don't get your point?

 

I'm not surprised! :-)

 

Write from your own life

experience, meditative and

otherwise, or just post

direct quotes like Vicky

does. Paraphrased book

learning doesn't cut it,

other than providing Jodyji

with a handy teaching

device -- it doesn't

reflect who you are right

now, which is surely what

we really bring to satsangh.

> All is speculation, if believe Mayas illusion fine.

 

Maya is not illusion per se,

the illusion is that all is

as it appears to be in the

world of causality. Maya is

a veil, the bride behind it

doesn't mean the veil isn't

a real veil!

> If they don't want

> to discuss its veracity then go to a bhakti list......ONS...Tony.

>

You don't discuss, Tony, you

lecture and argue without

experiential basis. This is

neither bhakti nor jnana, it

is (no offense to any rabbis

in attendence) rabbinic

palaver.

 

 

http://come.to/realization

http://www.atman.net/realization

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

______________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

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, Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

 

 

> You don't discuss, Tony, you

> lecture and argue without

> experiential basis. This is

> neither bhakti nor jnana, it

> is (no offense to any rabbis

> in attendence) rabbinic

> palaver.

 

Namaste Bruce,

 

I rarely go to my books, my 'paraphrasing' is just my own thoughts on

this. I throw in Ramana and Ammachi now and again, to avoid attacks of

the kind you are making.

 

You have no idea of what my experience is. At my age it is all

absorbed and reading is something really unnecessary.

 

It is a debate, it is not my fault people don't like the outcome.

 

ONS....Tony.

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You have it so wrong Tony,

 

Love, Wim

 

Tony O'Clery [aoclery]

Friday, August 24, 2001 9:47 AM

Re: maya .. was: Tony, Vndism and Vndication

 

, hamsayogini@a... wrote:

> It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out?

How

> to end this illusion?]]

> ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows

> us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of

> Maya, we comprehend That.

>

> Om Santi ...

> Yogini Sakti

 

Namaste Yogini,

 

Realising Sat means there is no illusion. Maya is not the illusion

but the projector of illusion, the Goddess/Saguna. There can be no

gradual withdrawal into moksha, it rises like a spontaneous sun,

according to Ramana. There is no individual after realising Sat, or

Absolute Existence.

 

However if you mean different levels of samadhi then yes there is a

gradual realisation......ONS......Tony.

 

 

 

/join

 

 

 

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is

where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal

Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously

arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

 

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On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:40:26 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery

writes:

> , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

>

>

>

> > You don't discuss, Tony, you

> > lecture and argue without

> > experiential basis. This is

> > neither bhakti nor jnana, it

> > is (no offense to any rabbis

> > in attendence) rabbinic

> > palaver.

>

> Namaste Bruce,

>

> I rarely go to my books, my 'paraphrasing' is just my own thoughts

> on

> this. I throw in Ramana and Ammachi now and again, to avoid attacks

> of the kind you are making.

 

So, you've internalized your

book learning -- mazel tov!

>

> You have no idea of what my experience is. At my age it is all

> absorbed and reading is something really unnecessary.

 

Memorized book learning is

still book learning. The

wise understand the

difference between wisdom

and what is "all absorbed."

>

> It is a debate, it is not my fault people don't like the outcome.

 

Not particular "outcome" is

at issue.

>

> ONS....Tony.

>

Take care, grandpa! :-)

 

 

http://come.to/realization

http://www.atman.net/realization

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

______________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

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, Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

>

> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:40:26 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery>

> writes:

> > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > > You don't discuss, Tony, you

> > > lecture and argue without

> > > experiential basis. This is

> > > neither bhakti nor jnana, it

> > > is (no offense to any rabbis

> > > in attendence) rabbinic

> > > palaver.

> >

> > Namaste Bruce,

> >

> > I rarely go to my books, my 'paraphrasing' is just my own thoughts

> > on

> > this. I throw in Ramana and Ammachi now and again, to avoid

attacks

> > of the kind you are making.

>

> So, you've internalized your

> book learning -- mazel tov!

> >

> > You have no idea of what my experience is. At my age it is all

> > absorbed and reading is something really unnecessary.

>

> Memorized book learning is

> still book learning. The

> wise understand the

> difference between wisdom

> and what is "all absorbed."

> >

> > It is a debate, it is not my fault people don't like the outcome.

>

> Not particular "outcome" is

> at issue.

> >

> > ONS....Tony.

> >

> Take care, grandpa! :-)

 

Namaste Bruce,

 

I actually have some experience......ONS......Tony.

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