Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out? How to end this illusion?]] ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of Maya, we comprehend That. Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , hamsayogini@a... wrote: > It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out? How > to end this illusion?]] > ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows > us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of > Maya, we comprehend That. > > Om Santi ... > Yogini Sakti Namaste Yogini, Realising Sat means there is no illusion. Maya is not the illusion but the projector of illusion, the Goddess/Saguna. There can be no gradual withdrawal into moksha, it rises like a spontaneous sun, according to Ramana. There is no individual after realising Sat, or Absolute Existence. However if you mean different levels of samadhi then yes there is a gradual realisation......ONS......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , hamsayogini@a... wrote: > It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out? How > to end this illusion?]] > ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows > us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of > Maya, we comprehend That. > > Om Santi ... > Yogini Sakti I wouldn't go so far as to say we gain power over Maya. While we may be liberated from Her as ignorance, as individuals we must continue to be worried about cars in the intersection. The liberated don't have any power over these. Then again, the liberated may not care if their bodies perish as the result of a collision with one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > , hamsayogini@a... wrote: > > It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out? How > > to end this illusion?]] > > ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows > > us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of > > Maya, we comprehend That. > > > > Om Santi ... > > Yogini Sakti > > I wouldn't go so far as to say we gain power over Maya. While > we may be liberated from Her as ignorance, as individuals we must > continue to be worried about cars in the intersection. The liberated > don't have any power over these. > > Then again, the liberated may not care if their bodies perish as the > result of a collision with one. Namaste, You are getting there, the next step in thinking is to realise that the liberated one isn't there.......ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: [snip] > Namaste, > > You are getting there, the next step in thinking is to realise that > the liberated one isn't there.......ONS.......Tony. No thanks Tony. You can keep your NonDualThink™ to yourself. I have the great fortune and blessing from Ma to not be infected with such nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > [snip] > > > Namaste, > > > > You are getting there, the next step in thinking is to realise that > > the liberated one isn't there.......ONS.......Tony. > > No thanks Tony. You can keep your NonDualThink™ to yourself. > I have the great fortune and blessing from Ma to not be infected > with such nonsense. Namaste Jody, If you read and study Ammachi, you would see that what I am saying is no different. If you wish to be a dualist that is fine, good luck and blessings. Bhakti is where you are at hopefully.......ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: [snip] > Namaste Jody, > > If you read and study Ammachi, you would see that what I am saying is > no different. If you wish to be a dualist that is fine, good luck and > blessings. Bhakti is where you are at hopefully.......ONS....Tony. Tony, what Ammachi knows experientially, and what you are saying (based on your speculative interpretation of her,) are two *very* different things. In fact, they are about as far apart as the ocean is from Nebraska. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > [snip] > > > Namaste Jody, > > > > If you read and study Ammachi, you would see that what I am saying is > > no different. If you wish to be a dualist that is fine, good luck and > > blessings. Bhakti is where you are at hopefully.......ONS....Tony. > > Tony, what Ammachi knows experientially, and what you are saying > (based on your speculative interpretation of her,) are two *very* > different things. In fact, they are about as far apart as the > ocean is from Nebraska. Namaste Jody rrr, I am looking at her discourses, no speculation at all she is very clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be one. I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way. hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery writes: > , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > > > [snip] > > [snip] > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be one. You admit you "cannot tell" but you are more than willing to speculate. Confession noted. > > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way. ....and that speculation is exactly as valuable as the previous one. > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony. > Right back atcha. :-) http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > writes: > > , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > > > > > [snip] > > > > [snip] > > > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be one. > > You admit you "cannot tell" > but you are more than willing > to speculate. Confession > noted. > > > > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way. > > ...and that speculation is > exactly as valuable as the > previous one. > > > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony. > > > Right back atcha. :-) Namaste Bruce, There is only speculation. Whilst one is in the bonds as Eric would say. It is the nature of the mind to wander and doubt, however it is useful as a thorn to remove a thorn.......ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:48 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery writes: > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > > writes: > > > , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > > > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > wrote: > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be > one. > > > > You admit you "cannot tell" > > but you are more than willing > > to speculate. Confession > > noted. > > > > > > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way. > > > > > ...and that speculation is > > exactly as valuable as the > > previous one. > > > > > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony. > > > > > Right back atcha. :-) > > Namaste Bruce, > > There is only speculation. > > Whilst one is in the bonds as Eric would say. It is the nature of > the > mind to wander and doubt, however it is useful as a thorn to remove > a thorn.......ONS...Tony. > ....and that too is speculation based on hearsay. There's nothing wrong with those for whom maya is all there is to "wander and doubt," but it's unwise from them to ascend the podium and pontificate. No amount of sanskrit seasoning makes speculation any more or other than somewhat learned- sounding speculation. http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:48 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > writes: > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > > > writes: > > > > , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > > > > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be > > one. > > > > > > You admit you "cannot tell" > > > but you are more than willing > > > to speculate. Confession > > > noted. > > > > > > > > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the way. > > > > > > > > ...and that speculation is > > > exactly as valuable as the > > > previous one. > > > > > > > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony. > > > > > > > Right back atcha. :-) > > > > Namaste Bruce, > > > > There is only speculation. > > > > Whilst one is in the bonds as Eric would say. It is the nature of > > the > > mind to wander and doubt, however it is useful as a thorn to remove > > a thorn.......ONS...Tony. > > > ...and that too is speculation > based on hearsay. There's > nothing wrong with those for > whom maya is all there is to > "wander and doubt," but it's > unwise from them to ascend the > podium and pontificate. No > amount of sanskrit seasoning > makes speculation any more or > other than somewhat learned- > sounding speculation. Namaste Bruce, Close the list and we'll all go home then!! I don't get your point? All is speculation, if believe Mayas illusion fine. If they don't want to discuss its veracity then go to a bhakti list......ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:10:41 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery writes: > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:48 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > > writes: > > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:00 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" > <aoclery> > > > > writes: > > > > > , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > > > > > > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > > clear. I cannot tell who is a jivanmukti but she seems to be > > > > one. > > > > > > > > You admit you "cannot tell" > > > > but you are more than willing > > > > to speculate. Confession > > > > noted. > > > > > > > > > > I believe by 2020 Nebraska will be on the coastline by the > way. > > > > > > > > > > > ...and that speculation is > > > > exactly as valuable as the > > > > previous one. > > > > > > > > > hahahahahahaah..........ONS.......Tony. > > > > > > > > > Right back atcha. :-) > > > > > > Namaste Bruce, > > > > > > There is only speculation. > > > > > > Whilst one is in the bonds as Eric would say. It is the nature > of > > > the > > > mind to wander and doubt, however it is useful as a thorn to > remove > > > a thorn.......ONS...Tony. > > > > > ...and that too is speculation > > based on hearsay. There's > > nothing wrong with those for > > whom maya is all there is to > > "wander and doubt," but it's > > unwise from them to ascend the > > podium and pontificate. No > > amount of sanskrit seasoning > > makes speculation any more or > > other than somewhat learned- > > sounding speculation. > > Namaste Bruce, > > Close the list and we'll all go home then!! I don't get your point? I'm not surprised! :-) Write from your own life experience, meditative and otherwise, or just post direct quotes like Vicky does. Paraphrased book learning doesn't cut it, other than providing Jodyji with a handy teaching device -- it doesn't reflect who you are right now, which is surely what we really bring to satsangh. > All is speculation, if believe Mayas illusion fine. Maya is not illusion per se, the illusion is that all is as it appears to be in the world of causality. Maya is a veil, the bride behind it doesn't mean the veil isn't a real veil! > If they don't want > to discuss its veracity then go to a bhakti list......ONS...Tony. > You don't discuss, Tony, you lecture and argue without experiential basis. This is neither bhakti nor jnana, it is (no offense to any rabbis in attendence) rabbinic palaver. http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > You don't discuss, Tony, you > lecture and argue without > experiential basis. This is > neither bhakti nor jnana, it > is (no offense to any rabbis > in attendence) rabbinic > palaver. Namaste Bruce, I rarely go to my books, my 'paraphrasing' is just my own thoughts on this. I throw in Ramana and Ammachi now and again, to avoid attacks of the kind you are making. You have no idea of what my experience is. At my age it is all absorbed and reading is something really unnecessary. It is a debate, it is not my fault people don't like the outcome. ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 You have it so wrong Tony, Love, Wim Tony O'Clery [aoclery] Friday, August 24, 2001 9:47 AM Re: maya .. was: Tony, Vndism and Vndication , hamsayogini@a... wrote: > It was written [[.. that is the illusion of Maya. How to get out? How > to end this illusion?]] > ** Once we realize Sat, then we gain power over Maya. This allows > us to gradually withdraw from the same. Freed from the control of > Maya, we comprehend That. > > Om Santi ... > Yogini Sakti Namaste Yogini, Realising Sat means there is no illusion. Maya is not the illusion but the projector of illusion, the Goddess/Saguna. There can be no gradual withdrawal into moksha, it rises like a spontaneous sun, according to Ramana. There is no individual after realising Sat, or Absolute Existence. However if you mean different levels of samadhi then yes there is a gradual realisation......ONS......Tony. /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release 8/7/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release 8/7/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:40:26 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery writes: > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > > You don't discuss, Tony, you > > lecture and argue without > > experiential basis. This is > > neither bhakti nor jnana, it > > is (no offense to any rabbis > > in attendence) rabbinic > > palaver. > > Namaste Bruce, > > I rarely go to my books, my 'paraphrasing' is just my own thoughts > on > this. I throw in Ramana and Ammachi now and again, to avoid attacks > of the kind you are making. So, you've internalized your book learning -- mazel tov! > > You have no idea of what my experience is. At my age it is all > absorbed and reading is something really unnecessary. Memorized book learning is still book learning. The wise understand the difference between wisdom and what is "all absorbed." > > It is a debate, it is not my fault people don't like the outcome. Not particular "outcome" is at issue. > > ONS....Tony. > Take care, grandpa! :-) http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2001 Report Share Posted August 25, 2001 , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:40:26 -0000 "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> > writes: > > , Bruce Morgen <editor@j...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > You don't discuss, Tony, you > > > lecture and argue without > > > experiential basis. This is > > > neither bhakti nor jnana, it > > > is (no offense to any rabbis > > > in attendence) rabbinic > > > palaver. > > > > Namaste Bruce, > > > > I rarely go to my books, my 'paraphrasing' is just my own thoughts > > on > > this. I throw in Ramana and Ammachi now and again, to avoid attacks > > of the kind you are making. > > So, you've internalized your > book learning -- mazel tov! > > > > You have no idea of what my experience is. At my age it is all > > absorbed and reading is something really unnecessary. > > Memorized book learning is > still book learning. The > wise understand the > difference between wisdom > and what is "all absorbed." > > > > It is a debate, it is not my fault people don't like the outcome. > > Not particular "outcome" is > at issue. > > > > ONS....Tony. > > > Take care, grandpa! :-) Namaste Bruce, I actually have some experience......ONS......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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