Vndism Redux & the Kundalini Experience

[Guest guest]

Tony, your family and any others who love you must find you to be

almost excrutiatingly exacerbating.

In Tony, Vndism & Vindication I wrote: "Second, one very real

classical school of Vedanta is Vndist...To take S. Chinmayananda's

initiation and join his school in Bombay, the aspirant would have to

sign a solemn promise to undertake a 5 year unbreakable commitment to

the training, which consisted in it's entirety only of discourse, both

verbal and logical, in the ancient Vedic style. This verbal training

(Vndism) could optionally be enhanced by meditation and/or chanting

as the student saw fit, but those devices were in no way part of the

required curriculum. The curriculum, as our Tony would appreciate,

consisted entirely of the word, both verbal and written.

To repeat:

"The curriculum, as our Tony would appreciate, consisted entirely of

the word, both verbal and written."

You "correct" me, thus: "My phrase Vndist really applies to people who

believe that the mind somehow or other becomes unitive and that this

is done by words and talk alone and no sadhana or practice. Practice

to purify the awareness sheath or the Buddhi.

Do you even read the stuff you comment on, or do you just bash off

another "correction"? Am I talking to a child here, or an idiot

savante?

So much for Mr.Nice Guy, Tony, now I'm taking off the gloves. For your

punishment, Tony, I'm going to repost, at timely intervals, my answer

to your 'Kundalini never led anyone to the Nirguna argument'. I'm

doing this as a profound favor to you,Tony, although I would never

suggest that it won't give some of us here some much needed and

pleasurable relief.

Here goes. Ready?

Tony,

we don't know one another and I'm relatively new to this list so I've

been reluctant to engage you in your frequent and provocative

Ex-cathedra pronouncements on nondualism.

However, your utterances about Kundalini are so steeped in ignorance

that I can't hold off any longer. How can it be that a man who, by

his own admission, has no systematic experience of K or the paths

that have evolved to deal both with it's awakening and it's

development, counts himself such an expert about it? You say you've

done research? You must have left all the Tantras, Jain and Buddhist

as well as Hindu, out of your library. You say you've consulted all

the great saints and realizers and then give us a list of three?

Agreed, Buddha, Krishnamurti(was it?) and Ramana Maharshi don't teach

about Kundalini, and didn't ostensibly give Kundalini initiation.

You can be sure, however, that each of them has experienced it because

nirvikalpa samadhi is nothing more or less than the final merger of

the individual into the absolute, or the "Divine"(I just wanted to

see if I could make you flinch). all of which is to say that the

final event in the non-K practices of Jnana Yoga and Hinayana

Buddhism is also simultaneously the awakening/final merger of K

sadhana. In at least one of these cases we have a witness to the

external events that accompagnied his realization. Read

"Krishnamurti: the years of awakening" for Mary Lutyens' eye witness

account of Krishnamurti's vivid and extreme Kundalini experiences.

While all three of these illustrious realizers aren't K awakeners,

Tantric Buddhists, without exception are. Further, Shankaracharya's

lesser known mission accompagnying his spreading of nondual Vedanta

to the four corners of India, is the founding of innumerable Shakti

Temples for the practical devotional expression of his nondualist

monks. Many, if not most, Shankara Advaitist Sannyasis are

philosophic Vedantists and Shakti and Kali worshipping Kundalini

practicioners. This is common knowledge to any old India hand. Ask

your nearest swami.

Interestingly enough, that great nondualist realizer, Nisargadatta

Maharaj, practiced dualistic devotions religiously every morning and

evening, and allowed his nondualist devotees to join him.But all

these interesting observations are really not the center of our

dispute are they?Even if we accept hypothetically that the three men

you cite aren't K realizers, what about the rest of the Indian saints

and gurus?

If I use their proper names I'll fill two pages alone, so I'll confine

myself to the lineages that come to mind.Let's start with all the

Shakta, Saivite and Jain Tantric lineages, as well as their Tibetan

Buddhist equivalents, both dual and nondual. We can move along to the

Nath and Siddha lineages of Northern India, both in their Yogic as

well as their Buddhist expressions. Let's not leave out the Sikhs and

their K lineages, including Kabir Panth and other Bengali expressions

of the poetic non-dualist schools. Perhaps we should throw in the

Bauls and their wonderful realizer poets, as well, before we move out

of Bengal and head south. In Maharashtra we can start with Jnaneshvar,

thought by many Indians to be the greatest nondualist of them all, and

his family as well as his lineage. We can move on to the bhakti poet

saints of Maharastra, including Tukaram, Namdev and their respective

lineages. We can't leave central and western India without mentioning

Sai Baba of Shirdi and his enormously influential lineage, including

the great Master Meher Baba, with the emormous impact that he has had

on both the western as well as Indian expressions of dharma. Finally,

as one of the great and ongoing lineages to spring from Maharashtra,

I'm pleased to be able to include the great Siddha, Bhagavan

Nityananda, and his successor, Baba Muktananda, and the multiple

lineages that continue to grow as expressions of their great

devotion and knowledge.

We can go on and on in this fashion until our computers collapse.

I've failed already to mention the Kriya lineage of Babaji, his

disciple, the great householder, Lahiri Mahasaya,and his disciple

Shri Yukteshvar, along with his most illustrious disciple, the world

famous Paramahamsa Yogananda. Another ongoing and powerful Kundalini

lineage. How could I have left out Bengal's paragon, Shri

Ramakrishna, his wife, Sarada Devi and his disciple Vivekananda, and

the lineage of world famous achiever monks of the Ramakrishna

Order?Of course, we should mention the great female bhakti poets and

song writers Mirabhai, Lalleshvar and Jnanabhai.I've failed to

mention all the Sufi K lineages, but I thought I'd confine my

attentions to lineages I know something about.

If you read over all the lineages mentioned in this list, all of which

work with the awakened Kundalini, you might end up agreeing with me,

Tony, that the only "Elephant's tail" around here is you.

yours in the bonds,

eric---

In , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:> Namaste

All,> > Well if we are going to give validity at all to the mind,

there is > only one.

> > Cakras are everywhere, if you look. The nature of energy is that

it > has to move to manifest otherwise it is potential.> > So called

cakras in the human body are just areas of energy > concentration at

the endocrine glands. Energy cannot stand still so it > either

manifests as a wave a particle or spiralling vortices, which is > as

close energy gets to standing still. For it manifests in roughly >

the same place.> > So people who look for cakras find them, it is

kind of like a blind > man holding the elephant's tail and being told

or believing that that > is an elephant. Cakras are everywhere, there

is nothing but cakras and > energy movement!!!!People's minds, once

they are told of a particular > construct then accept believe and

embellish it. It is all in the > imagination in their interpretation,

usually in a strict unthinking > religious type way.> > I take the

words of the great sages and add to my own experience, that > K is

the mind, and that cakras are mental constructs/imagination, in > the

way they are presented by many........ONS.........Tony.

[Guest guest]

, EBlackstead@c... wrote:

> Tony & Friends,

>

> Tony, your family and any others who love you must find you to be

almost

> excrutiatingly exacerbating.

 

Namaste Eric,

 

No correction just a re statement of what my term Vndism meant. People

who talk and talk but do no sadhana at all, people not in a spiritual

environment perhaps only an intellectual one.

 

Punishment is not something that bothers me, I am impervious to

punishment and insults........ONS......Tony. Who am I?