Guest guest Posted August 28, 2001 Report Share Posted August 28, 2001 Namaste All, Well continuing the detective work to find out how K became so distorted and misinterpreted. First of all, it says in the Texts that a guru has to be a realised one-----a jivanmukti. Secondly, that a student shouldn't be accepted unless they have been on probation for three months to a year. I still hold to my own experience in this field. That is the so called K activity is actually the mind cleaning the sheaths with prana, accompanied by spiritual sadhana. To undestand this a little more, one has to forget about the physical body at all for a moment. Just take the subtle body, and its sheaths. As I have said all along there is nothing but movement of energy. There are vortices and currents running through all energy. There are no channels in the spine etc. There are currents in the subtle body. The sushumna and nadis are names for these 'infinite number of currents'. Within the sushumna current there are even more subtle currents of vajra and citrini. There is movement of this current daily, not just in those who are supposedly 'K awakened'. It is subtle most people don't notice it, as they don't notice bodily interactions in the physical even. The cakras are transduction points for the various sheaths of the bodies. Lower is for the more physical and higher for the more subtle. In dogs and animals generally the lower cakras are developed and the higher not so. The vortices or cakras are part and parcel of the currents in the subtle, including the 3 sushumna currents, and ida, pingala etc. Some people are aware of physical actions in their bodies, some are more aware of movement in their subtle bodies than others. That is a meditative fact. Building up an extra supply of prana through pranayama etc is just that nothing else but. If this is applied to a subtle body without spiritual practice, it causes problems. Greater activity is no badge of honour, it means very little and in fact if anything it indicates a long way to go to the more subtle and imperceptible. There is no tradition of K in the East that doesn't include comprehensive spiritual practise, which is the main reason for enlightenment. One can whistle prana up and down the sushumna current forever, but without sadhana it will accomplish nothing.......ONS.....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2001 Report Share Posted August 28, 2001 Dear Tony, You wrote: > ... continuing the detective work to find out > how K became so distorted and misinterpreted. You indeed offer a good list of distortions and misinterpretations: Distortions: > I still hold to my own experience in this field. Did you not call experience illusion a few posts ago? > To undestand (sic) this a little more, one has to > forget about the physical body at all for a moment. That is of course totally impractical and impossible, so whatever follows from your proposition ("one has to forget...") can only be inconclusive and purely hypothetical. One cannot *understand* or "substantiate" anything without physical evidence. Originally, in the early Italian Renaissance, the word "understanding" and "substantiate" meant the same, those words had to do with substance, stuff, "material". "To understand" is a medieval English translation of the early Italian renaissance verb "substare." Etymologically words like "substance", Latin substantia, derive from substare to stand under, from sub + stare "to stand." (Words like existence, instance, substance all come from the Aryan / Sanskrit root STA for standing up straight.) The come to conclusive understanding one has to bring "substance" (stuff) to the table as evidence. The early renaissance sage who invented the word "substance" set out to prove that understanding without substance was not understanding. That is why I urged you a few times now to "substantiate" your claim physics proves that the physical is "illusion." > Just take the subtle body, and its sheaths. One cannot take the subtle body and its sheaths separate from the physical body... You are not "non-dual." > As I have said all along there is nothing but movement of energy. You have also said that energy is illusion, and that physics proves it. So where are you going with this?. You contradict yourself too often. > There are vortices and currents running through all energy. > There are no channels in the spine etc. Oh yes, there is the "Central Spinal Canal." That is one of the organs in our body through which "Cerebro-Spinal Fluid" circulates (The Pineal Gland, The meninges, the 5 paired ventricles in our brain and the sheathing around our nerves are the others.). Through this gel like Cerebro-Spinal Fluid, which is quite alkaline, tastes like seawater and resembles the consistency and clarity of jelly fish, (There is a big story there, which I have already told elsewhere.) run two flows of energy, one mostly upward "terrestrial" flow of earthly vibrations, and one mostly "celestial" flow of cosmic vibrations. These energies currents run through the CSC with their vibrations forming interference patterns as turbulence, waves, vortices and eddies. I see, feel and hear those vibrations as I inspect them in my clients, who are asking for advise on how to balance their energy patterns (aura and chakras). In the usual person, most vortices and eddies that are formed by these energetic currents that run through their CSC are quite irregular, caused by misalignment of the spine, improper use of musculature and misdirection of messages by the nervous system. Drain the Central Spinal Fluid from the human body and the human dies... > There are currents in the subtle body. These are indeed currents and although very subtle they are very physical and can be measured... > The sushumna and nadis are names > for these 'infinite number of currents'. > Within the sushumna current there are even more > subtle currents of vajra and citrini. All terms from older texts, Tony, text which incidentally describe the physicality of what we now call the central nervous system and the nervous energy pathway phenomenon... just a different paradigm. (The meridian system is another comparable paradigm.) Why do you think these older texts are about physical asanas, physical breathing and physical body cleansing techniques, from cleaning your rectum to cleaning your nose, from solid food to liquid, from smearing oneself with feces and drinking one's own urine to soma (the nectar of immortality, the Cerebro-Spinal Fluid), from sounds to descriptions of energy patterns (chakras). From physical eroticism to tantric practices. All the senses are covered in these books. There is nothing exclusively subtle or abstract in these books, read Hatha Yoga Pradipika. Do not just distill from that literature that which fits you paradigm of illusion, Tony. You have not even tried to validate or substantiate them (the nadis) in your own body, as you keep discrediting the body as not subtle enough or even illusive, deeming 'anything not the body' as subtle and thus preferable over our more animal like characteristics... You show definite signs of a mind / body split. > There is movement of this current daily, "Daily"? What does that word do in there..., man, Tony??? > ...not just in those who are *supposedly* 'K awakened'. > It is subtle most people don't notice it, > as they don't notice bodily interactions in the physical even. .. A genuine convoluted "Tonyism", because if they do notice and bear witness of bodily interactions, you Tony, discredit those people and their experience as iIlusive. Even worse, when those physical bodily interactions are Kundalini related, you mark these people as "supposedly 'K awakened'" and "charlatans", you call them "imbeciles" and "frauds." Remember your diatribe from yesterday. Could it be that you Tony yourself, are one of those people, who "don't notice bodily interactions in the physical even" and if you notice them you call that 'experience' and discredit experience as illusion... Tony don't you see that you are the subject of your own judgments... > The cakras are transduction points > for the various sheaths of the bodies. > Lower is for the more physical and > higher for the more subtle. > In dogs and animals generally the lower cakras > are developed and the higher not so. In dogs and animals? Why are dogs to be especially mentioned? You cannot even recognize a jivanmukta, what can you say about animals? > The vortices or cakras are part and parcel of the currents in the > subtle, including the 3 sushumna currents, and ida, pingala etc. They are part and parcel of the whole human, you are playing dualist here Tony. > Some people are aware of physical actions in their bodies, > some are more aware of movement in their subtle bodies than others. > That is a meditative fact. Meditative fact???? > Building up an extra supply of prana through pranayama etc > is just that nothing else but. > If this is applied to a subtle body without spiritual practice, it causes problems. And when you do it Tony's way you will be like Tony...without any problems. > Greater activity is no badge of honour, it means very little Better yet, you get dishonoured by Tony, who classifies you as an imbecile. > and in fact if anything it indicates a long way to go to the more subtle and > imperceptible. Which of course only Tony can perceive. > There is no tradition of K in the East that doesn't include > comprehensive spiritual practise, > which is the main reason for enlightenment. Tony, you don't know what enlightenment, realization, liberation, moksha, satori. etc is. Everyone who accounts of their enlightenment, tells you that at the instant of realization, that you also realize that all the spiritual practice you did, was actually for naught, at best a fun dance while being stuck in a holding pattern. That is where the liberating laughter comes in. To quote Ramana: "Realisation is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought "I have not realised". > One can whistle prana up and down the sushumna current forever, > but without sadhana it will accomplish nothing. Tony...have you gotten closer to say good riddance to the thought "I have not realised". Loving you Tony, Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release 8/7/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2001 Report Share Posted August 29, 2001 Hi Wim, >Oh yes, there is the "Central Spinal Canal." >That is one of the organs in our body through which "Cerebro-Spinal Fluid" >circulates (The Pineal Gland, The meninges, the 5 paired ventricles in our >brain and the sheathing around our nerves are the others.). I'd be interested in hearing more detail about this, thanks. And maybe a diagram would be helpful? Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2001 Report Share Posted August 29, 2001 Dear Dharma, Wim wrote: >Oh yes, there is the "Central Spinal Canal." >That is one of the organs in our body through which "Cerebro-Spinal Fluid" >circulates (The Pineal Gland, The meninges, the 5 paired ventricles in our >brain and the sheathing around our nerves are the others.). You wrote: > I'd be interested in hearing more detail about this, thanks. And maybe > a diagram would be helpful? Let me for suffice with two slideshow pictures. And a reference to a page from my website with lots of personal detail about soma or nectar : http://www.aurasphere.org/Kundalini%20Posts/NectarAndBandhas http://www.aurasphere.org Love, Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release 8/7/2001 Attachment: (image/jpeg) CSF in CSC.jpg [not stored] Attachment: (image/jpeg) CSF.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2001 Report Share Posted August 30, 2001 Hi Wim, Thanks so much!! Haven't had a chance yet to go read it, but I looked at the illustrations. Do you happen to have one that shows the pineal gland, the meninges, and the 5 paired ventricles? Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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