Guest guest Posted August 30, 2001 Report Share Posted August 30, 2001 Compassion comes with realization. Compassion is the crown of life. Gnaniyoga is the 'gift of knowledge'. Swami Sivananda of Rishikesh said, "Give food too those who are hungry & after awhile they will again be in need. Give money to the needy & after they have spent it they will again be in want. But give knowledge to all, & you will have given them the wherewhithal to take care of themselves." Yoga is a tool to promote our growth towards the realization of spirit, abundant health & wholeness, peace & compassion. The practice of Yoga will awaken the moral qualitites of wisdom, love & purity. When we truly live Yoga our lives are transformed & our hearts are opened. As such we are then able to express this purity, without fear, to all we encounter. Daily practice of Yoga enables us to express compassion & generosity for all. This is because yoga transcends religion, politics, race or gender. Anger, jealousy & resentment - things that hinder our growth - fall away from us. Stronger than hate, fear, fanaticism and bigotry, Yoga is the highest of all expressions .. which is why it culminates in Gnana. Profoundity is the hallmark of the Yoga practitioner; because of this, it is clear to determine who has yet to find the Real. Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2001 Report Share Posted August 30, 2001 , hamsayogini@a... wrote: > Compassion comes with realization. Compassion is the crown of life. Compassion comes in many forms, both gentle and strong. For Arjuna in the Gita, compassionate action required him to engage in a war against his friends. The point is that compassion might wear the appearance of harshness at times. We shouldn't be quick to judge a behavior based on its appearance alone, for unless we know the inner motive from which it springs we really don't know much about it at all. > Gnaniyoga is the 'gift of knowledge'. Swami Sivananda of Rishikesh > said, "Give food too those who are hungry & after awhile they will > again be in need. Give money to the needy & after they have spent it > they will again be in want. But give knowledge to all, & you will > have given them the wherewhithal to take care of themselves." > > Yoga is a tool to promote our growth towards the realization of > spirit, abundant health & wholeness, peace & compassion. The > practice of Yoga will awaken the moral qualitites of wisdom, love & > purity. When we truly live Yoga our lives are transformed & our > hearts are opened. As such we are then able to express this purity, > without fear, to all we encounter. Again, how this purity manifests should not be measured against expectation. When one speaks of purity in Yoga, one may refer to different kinds of 'purity.' In the truest sense, this purity refers to the purity of the Atman. It is extremely important that we not confuse this purity with moral purity. The Atman is pure as it is composed of only Itself and knows only Itself. The one who knows the Atman knows this purity. However, the jnani as transcended morality altogether. This isn't a license to 'ill,' and it's extremely unlikely that a jnani would do so, unless compassionate action necessitates it. However, to expect a jnani to abide by some sort of moral yardstick at all times is to place conditions on the unconditional. Ramakrishna used to say that sometimes a paramahamsa behaves like a child and sometimes he behaves like a madman. We should be prepared to think outside the box when dealing with jnanis and their actions. > Daily practice of Yoga enables us to express compassion & generosity > for all. This is because yoga transcends religion, politics, race or > gender. Anger, jealousy & resentment - things that hinder our > growth - fall away from us. More quickly in some, less in others. Here lies the interface between spirituality and psychology. > Stronger than hate, fear, fanaticism and bigotry, Yoga is the highest > of all expressions .. which is why it culminates in Gnana. > > Profoundity is the hallmark of the Yoga practitioner; because of > this, it is clear to determine who has yet to find the Real. Only those who live in clarity can truly understand those who share the experience. What profoundity is can vary from person to person, and how it is expressed can vary from jnani to jnani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2001 Report Share Posted August 30, 2001 I really enjoyed this one, Jody -- very clear stuff! Much love -- Bruce On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:02:26 -0000 jodyrrr writes: > , hamsayogini@a... wrote: > > > Compassion comes with realization. Compassion is the crown of > life. > > Compassion comes in many forms, both gentle and strong. For Arjuna > in the Gita, compassionate action required him to engage in a war > against his friends. The point is that compassion might wear the > appearance of harshness at times. We shouldn't be quick to judge > a behavior based on its appearance alone, for unless we know the > inner motive from which it springs we really don't know much about > it at all. > > > Gnaniyoga is the 'gift of knowledge'. Swami Sivananda of > Rishikesh > > said, "Give food too those who are hungry & after awhile they will > > > again be in need. Give money to the needy & after they have spent > it > > they will again be in want. But give knowledge to all, & you will > > > have given them the wherewhithal to take care of themselves." > > > > Yoga is a tool to promote our growth towards the realization of > > spirit, abundant health & wholeness, peace & compassion. The > > practice of Yoga will awaken the moral qualitites of wisdom, love > & > > purity. When we truly live Yoga our lives are transformed & our > > hearts are opened. As such we are then able to express this > purity, > > without fear, to all we encounter. > > Again, how this purity manifests should not be measured against > expectation. When one speaks of purity in Yoga, one may refer to > different kinds of 'purity.' In the truest sense, this purity > refers to the purity of the Atman. It is extremely important > that we not confuse this purity with moral purity. The Atman is > pure as it is composed of only Itself and knows only Itself. > The one who knows the Atman knows this purity. However, the > jnani as transcended morality altogether. This isn't a license > to 'ill,' and it's extremely unlikely that a jnani would do so, > unless compassionate action necessitates it. However, to expect > a jnani to abide by some sort of moral yardstick at all times > is to place conditions on the unconditional. Ramakrishna used > to say that sometimes a paramahamsa behaves like a child and > sometimes he behaves like a madman. We should be prepared to > think outside the box when dealing with jnanis and their actions. > > > Daily practice of Yoga enables us to express compassion & > generosity > > for all. This is because yoga transcends religion, politics, race > or > > gender. Anger, jealousy & resentment - things that hinder our > > growth - fall away from us. > > More quickly in some, less in others. Here lies the interface > between spirituality and psychology. > > > Stronger than hate, fear, fanaticism and bigotry, Yoga is the > highest > > of all expressions .. which is why it culminates in Gnana. > > > > Profoundity is the hallmark of the Yoga practitioner; because of > > this, it is clear to determine who has yet to find the Real. > > Only those who live in clarity can truly understand those who > share the experience. What profoundity is can vary from person > to person, and how it is expressed can vary from jnani to jnani. > http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2001 Report Share Posted August 30, 2001 I second this, Jody. Thank you! Love, Kheyala - Bruce Morgen Thursday, August 30, 2001 7:42 PM Re: Re: Real Yoga I really enjoyed this one, Jody -- very clear stuff!Much love -- BruceOn Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:02:26 -0000 jodyrrr (AT) home (DOT) com writes:> --- In , hamsayogini@a... wrote:> > > Compassion comes with realization. Compassion is the crown of > life.> > Compassion comes in many forms, both gentle and strong. For Arjuna> in the Gita, compassionate action required him to engage in a war> against his friends. The point is that compassion might wear the> appearance of harshness at times. We shouldn't be quick to judge> a behavior based on its appearance alone, for unless we know the> inner motive from which it springs we really don't know much about> it at all.> > > Gnaniyoga is the 'gift of knowledge'. Swami Sivananda of > Rishikesh > > said, "Give food too those who are hungry & after awhile they will > > > again be in need. Give money to the needy & after they have spent > it > > they will again be in want. But give knowledge to all, & you will > > > have given them the wherewhithal to take care of themselves."> > > > Yoga is a tool to promote our growth towards the realization of > > spirit, abundant health & wholeness, peace & compassion. The > > practice of Yoga will awaken the moral qualitites of wisdom, love > & > > purity. When we truly live Yoga our lives are transformed & our > > hearts are opened. As such we are then able to express this > purity, > > without fear, to all we encounter.> > Again, how this purity manifests should not be measured against> expectation. When one speaks of purity in Yoga, one may refer to> different kinds of 'purity.' In the truest sense, this purity> refers to the purity of the Atman. It is extremely important> that we not confuse this purity with moral purity. The Atman is> pure as it is composed of only Itself and knows only Itself.> The one who knows the Atman knows this purity. However, the> jnani as transcended morality altogether. This isn't a license> to 'ill,' and it's extremely unlikely that a jnani would do so,> unless compassionate action necessitates it. However, to expect> a jnani to abide by some sort of moral yardstick at all times> is to place conditions on the unconditional. Ramakrishna used> to say that sometimes a paramahamsa behaves like a child and> sometimes he behaves like a madman. We should be prepared to> think outside the box when dealing with jnanis and their actions.> > > Daily practice of Yoga enables us to express compassion & > generosity > > for all. This is because yoga transcends religion, politics, race > or > > gender. Anger, jealousy & resentment - things that hinder our > > growth - fall away from us. > > More quickly in some, less in others. Here lies the interface> between spirituality and psychology.> > > Stronger than hate, fear, fanaticism and bigotry, Yoga is the > highest > > of all expressions .. which is why it culminates in Gnana. > > > > Profoundity is the hallmark of the Yoga practitioner; because of > > this, it is clear to determine who has yet to find the Real.> > Only those who live in clarity can truly understand those who> share the experience. What profoundity is can vary from person> to person, and how it is expressed can vary from jnani to jnani.> http://come.to/realizationhttp://www.atman.net/realizationhttp://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htmhttp://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm______________GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj./join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2001 Report Share Posted August 30, 2001 Thanks Kheyala and Bruceji. I have come to understand that expectations about realization are among the strongest hindrances to its manifestation in a life. Spiritual culture's fascination with hagiography (the idealization of the lives of the saints) is the primary culprit in this regard. When we are given a story that has been stripped of the mundane and human while pumped up with the fantastic, we end up with all sorts of ridiculous assumptions about what realization brings to a life. Another source of expectation are the mental images generated by an aspirant's interpretation of spiritual texts. Separately or in combination, these create an impenetrable wall to one's coming to know the truth directly. Unfortunately, spiritual culture is overwhelmingly rife with this kind of thinking. It's sad to say that most of what passes for spirituality stands squarely in the way of the goal most people are seeking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 Hi Jody, >snip< >Again, how this purity manifests should not be measured against >expectation. When one speaks of purity in Yoga, one may refer to >different kinds of 'purity.' In the truest sense, this purity >refers to the purity of the Atman. It is extremely important >that we not confuse this purity with moral purity. The Atman is >pure as it is composed of only Itself and knows only Itself. >The one who knows the Atman knows this purity. However, the >jnani as transcended morality altogether. This isn't a license >snip< There is a book by Kierkegaard with a title I love: _Purity of Heart Is to Will One Thing_ Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 Dear Jody, Beautiful. Keep talking! This is so nourishing to me. Love, Kheyala - jodyrrr (AT) home (DOT) com Thursday, August 30, 2001 6:41 PM Re: Real Yoga Thanks Kheyala and Bruceji.I have come to understand that expectations about realizationare among the strongest hindrances to its manifestation in a life.Spiritual culture's fascination with hagiography (the idealizationof the lives of the saints) is the primary culprit in this regard.When we are given a story that has been stripped of the mundaneand human while pumped up with the fantastic, we end up with allsorts of ridiculous assumptions about what realization brings toa life.Another source of expectation are the mental images generated by an aspirant's interpretation of spiritual texts. Separately orin combination, these create an impenetrable wall to one's comingto know the truth directly.Unfortunately, spiritual culture is overwhelmingly rife with thiskind of thinking. It's sad to say that most of what passes forspirituality stands squarely in the way of the goal most peopleare seeking./join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , Dharma <deva@L...> wrote: It is extremely important > >that we not confuse this purity with moral purity. The Atman is > >pure as it is composed of only Itself and knows only Itself. > >The one who knows the Atman knows this purity. However, the > >jnani as transcended morality altogether. This isn't a license > > Love, > Dharma Namaste Dharma, It seems to me that the Atman 'knows' nothing at all, knowing belongs to the area of Saguna Brahman or the Goddess. Knowing itself is Maya at the universal level and avidya at the individual.....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 - Tony O'Clery Friday, August 31, 2001 11:39 AM Re: Real Yoga , Dharma <deva@L...> wrote: It is extremely important> >that we not confuse this purity with moral purity. The Atman is> >pure as it is composed of only Itself and knows only Itself.> >The one who knows the Atman knows this purity. However, the> >jnani as transcended morality altogether. This isn't a license> > Love,> DharmaNamaste Dharma,It seems to me that the Atman 'knows' nothing at all, knowing belongs to the area of Saguna Brahman or the Goddess. Knowing itself is Maya at the universal level and avidya at the individual.....ONS...Tony.Tony, Are you saying nirguna is 'beyond' Sat Chit Ananada? Being 'knowing itself' is one definition of consciousness. Otherwise, simply being unconscious, as in sedated would be enlightenment. Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , "Gloria Lee" <glee@i...> wrote: > > - > Tony O'Clery > > Friday, August 31, 2001 11:39 AM > Re: Real Yoga > > > , Dharma <deva@L...> wrote: > It is extremely important > > >that we not confuse this purity with moral purity. The Atman is > > >pure as it is composed of only Itself and knows only Itself. > > >The one who knows the Atman knows this purity. However, the > > >jnani as transcended morality altogether. This isn't a license > > > > > Love, > > Dharma > > Namaste Dharma, > > It seems to me that the Atman 'knows' nothing at all, knowing belongs > to the area of Saguna Brahman or the Goddess. Knowing itself is Maya > at the universal level and avidya at the individual.....ONS...Tony. > > Tony, > Are you saying nirguna is 'beyond' Sat Chit Ananada? Being 'knowing itself' is one definition of consciousness. Otherwise, simply being unconscious, as in sedated would be enlightenment. > > Gloria Namaste Glo, Sat-Cit-Ananda is a description of Saguna Brahman, for they are attributes. Nirguna means no attributes or gunas. Some call the Atman the Saguna, some the Nirguna. Ultimately all is Nirguna. Sages usually discuss the Self as being Sat-Cit-Ananda, for their audience's sake. I cannot speculate on Nirguna with my mind of attributes.....ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: [snip] > Namaste Dharma, > > It seems to me that the Atman 'knows' nothing at all, knowing belongs > to the area of Saguna Brahman or the Goddess. Knowing itself is Maya > at the universal level and avidya at the individual.....ONS...Tony. Once again you demonstate exactly how much you *don't* know. If Atman doesn't know Itself, then there would be no such thing as awareness, as Gloria has pointed out. When one comes to realization, the thing that happens to an individual is that the ability for the mind to note the Atman knowing Itself comes as an unbidden act of grace. It is this Atman knowing Itself that comprises the basis of experiential knowledge we refer to as jnana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > [snip] > > > Namaste Dharma, > > > > It seems to me that the Atman 'knows' nothing at all, knowing belongs > > to the area of Saguna Brahman or the Goddess. Knowing itself is Maya > > at the universal level and avidya at the individual.....ONS...Tony. > > Once again you demonstate exactly how much you *don't* know. > > If Atman doesn't know Itself, then there would be no such thing > as awareness, as Gloria has pointed out. > > When one comes to realization, the thing that happens to an > individual is that the ability for the mind to note the Atman > knowing Itself comes as an unbidden act of grace. It is this > Atman knowing Itself that comprises the basis of experiential > knowledge we refer to as jnana. Namaste Jody. >From your picture, it looks like you are on the path of Saguna Brahman, and this is where my difference are with you and some others on here. There is only awareness, as you call it, at the Saguna Brahman. Nirguna means what it says, No gunas, no modifications, no attributes. Even the creation hymn of the Rig Veda, wonders whether God knows or doesn't.......ONS......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: [snip] > Namaste Jody. > > From your picture, it looks like you are on the path of Saguna > Brahman, and this is where my difference are with you and some others > on here. There is only awareness, as you call it, at the Saguna > Brahman. You never cease to amaze me with your wholly uninformed pronouncements. > Nirguna means what it says, No gunas, no modifications, no > attributes. The ineffable Brahman is described as satchitananda in the Upanishads. Sagauna Brahman has all the attributes of creation, but the Upanishadic sages have reserved the term satchitananda for Nirguna Brahman only, However, it doesn't surprise me one bit that you feel yourself qualified to reform the Upanishads. It's a wonder that just won't cease unfortunately. > Even the creation hymn of the Rig Veda, wonders whether God knows or > doesn't.......ONS......Tony. God knows He exists, and that's all He needs to know for the universe to exist as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > [snip] > > > Namaste Jody. > > > > From your picture, it looks like you are on the path of Saguna > > Brahman, and this is where my difference are with you and some others > > on here. There is only awareness, as you call it, at the Saguna > > Brahman. > > You never cease to amaze me with your wholly uninformed > pronouncements. > > > Nirguna means what it says, No gunas, no modifications, no > > attributes. > > The ineffable Brahman is described as satchitananda in the > Upanishads. Sagauna Brahman has all the attributes of > creation, but the Upanishadic sages have reserved the term > satchitananda for Nirguna Brahman only, > > However, it doesn't surprise me one bit that you feel > yourself qualified to reform the Upanishads. It's a > wonder that just won't cease unfortunately. > > > Even the creation hymn of the Rig Veda, wonders whether God knows or > > doesn't.......ONS......Tony. > > God knows He exists, and that's all He needs to know for the > universe to exist as well. Namaste Jody, Lets have a look at your picture again. You are wearing spiritual dress, indicating religion--dualistic. You are wearing a japamala indication you do japa to a form--dualistic. You are wearing the vaishnava tilaka on your forehead, which indicates again dualism, or worship of vishnu or whatever. Like the Hare Krishna's do, they are also dualistic vaishnavas. There's nothing wrong with that but Nirguna is a different concept and one cannot critique Nirguna from a Saguna aspect.......ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: [snip] > Namaste Jody, > > Lets have a look at your picture again. You are wearing spiritual > dress, indicating religion--dualistic. Assumption: All who wear Indian dress are exclusively dualistic. > You are wearing a japamala indication you do japa to a > form--dualistic. Assumption: All who wear malas do japam, and all that do japam are exclusively dualistic. > You are wearing the vaishnava tilaka on your forehead, which indicates > again dualism, or worship of vishnu or whatever. Like the Hare > Krishna's do, they are also dualistic vaishnavas. Assumption: All marks on foreheads are vaishnava in origin. > There's nothing wrong with that but Nirguna is a different concept and > one cannot critique Nirguna from a Saguna aspect.......ONS...Tony. Assumption: I (Tony) know what I'm talking about because I've read a lot of books, hung out with kinky gurus, and shake a little bit when I meditate. Facts: Indian dress can be worn by anybody, religious or not, dualistic or not. It indicates nothing except a preference for the fashion, which has a place in the context of hindu spiritual practices. People can draw from a range of practices both dualistic and nondualistic. Ramakrishna said bhakti is the easiest path, yet his protege was a nondualist, and became a bhakta toward the end of his life. There is no clear line of delination between the dual and the nondual, and dualistic practices lead to nondual realization. A mark on the forehead made of the ash and ghee from a homa fire is simply the applied prasad from the ceremony. It signifies nothing except attendance at the fire. These 10 consecutive homas were in honor of the 10 Dasha Mayavidyas, or ten forms of Shakti, who is not Vishnu, although Vishnu is a manifestation of Her. Shall I say it once again? When you speak your lips remain silent, yet somehow the air still gets kinda stinky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > [snip] > > > Namaste Jody, > > > > Lets have a look at your picture again. You are wearing spiritual > > dress, indicating religion--dualistic. > > Assumption: All who wear Indian dress are exclusively dualistic. > > > You are wearing a japamala indication you do japa to a > > form--dualistic. > > Assumption: All who wear malas do japam, and all that do > japam are exclusively dualistic. > > > You are wearing the vaishnava tilaka on your forehead, which indicates > > again dualism, or worship of vishnu or whatever. Like the Hare > > Krishna's do, they are also dualistic vaishnavas. > > Assumption: All marks on foreheads are vaishnava in origin. > > > There's nothing wrong with that but Nirguna is a different concept and > > one cannot critique Nirguna from a Saguna aspect.......ONS...Tony. > > Assumption: I (Tony) know what I'm talking about because I've read > a lot of books, hung out with kinky gurus, and shake a little bit > when I meditate. > > Facts: > > Indian dress can be worn by anybody, religious or not, dualistic > or not. It indicates nothing except a preference for the fashion, > which has a place in the context of hindu spiritual practices. > > People can draw from a range of practices both dualistic and > nondualistic. Ramakrishna said bhakti is the easiest path, yet > his protege was a nondualist, and became a bhakta toward the end > of his life. There is no clear line of delination between the dual > and the nondual, and dualistic practices lead to nondual realization. > > A mark on the forehead made of the ash and ghee from a homa fire > is simply the applied prasad from the ceremony. It signifies > nothing except attendance at the fire. These 10 consecutive homas > were in honor of the 10 Dasha Mayavidyas, or ten forms of Shakti, > who is not Vishnu, although Vishnu is a manifestation of Her. > > Shall I say it once again? When you speak your lips remain silent, > yet somehow the air still gets kinda stinky. Namaste Jody, I usually work on the premise that if something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. The tilaka again was marked in the Vaishnava form, perpendicular, as opposed to horizontally in the Saivite tradition. In association with a religious practice, dress and paraphenalia mean something. Your japamala did othewise you wouldn't be wearing it on your sleeve so to speak. Again it is obvious you are a devotee of the Saguna and there is nothing wrong with that. Just a different path from Nirguna advaita that's all........ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: [snip] > Namaste Jody, > > I usually work on the premise that if something looks like a duck, > quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. > > The tilaka again was marked in the Vaishnava form, perpendicular, as > opposed to horizontally in the Saivite tradition. > > In association with a religious practice, dress and paraphenalia mean > something. Your japamala did othewise you wouldn't be wearing it on > your sleeve so to speak. > > Again it is obvious you are a devotee of the Saguna and there is > nothing wrong with that. Just a different path from Nirguna advaita > that's all........ONS.......Tony. Too bad you haven't a clue as to what advaita really is. It would make your presence here just a little more tolerable. As it is, you are a stubborn and surprisingly immature pedant, even if my saying it is like the pot calling the kettle black. The only thing of value that comes out of your mouth here is a great example of what goes wrong when people are plagued by the disease of NonDualThink™. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , "Wim Borsboom" <wim@a...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > Are you telling us that you are on the "Nirguna Advaita" path? > > Love, Wim Namaste Wim, On the advaita path. Hopefully culminating in Nirguna/Nirvana...After I have cleansed my sheaths hahahahaha..ONS.Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , jodyrrr@h... wrote: > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > [snip] > > > Namaste Jody, > > > > I usually work on the premise that if something looks like a duck, > > quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. > > > > The tilaka again was marked in the Vaishnava form, perpendicular, as > > opposed to horizontally in the Saivite tradition. > > > > In association with a religious practice, dress and paraphenalia mean > > something. Your japamala did othewise you wouldn't be wearing it on > > your sleeve so to speak. > > > > Again it is obvious you are a devotee of the Saguna and there is > > nothing wrong with that. Just a different path from Nirguna advaita > > that's all........ONS.......Tony. > > Too bad you haven't a clue as to what advaita really is. It would > make your presence here just a little more tolerable. > > As it is, you are a stubborn and surprisingly immature pedant, > even if my saying it is like the pot calling the kettle black. > > The only thing of value that comes out of your mouth here is a > great example of what goes wrong when people are plagued by the > disease of NonDualThink™. Namaste Jody, Thank you for pointing out my ekagratha or one pointedness...ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 Nope, Dharma didn't write this... somebody got the names mixed up. ) >Dharma <<deva@L> deva@L...> wrote: > It is >extremely important> >that we not confuse this purity with moral >purity. The Atman is> >pure as it is composed of only Itself and >knows only Itself.> >The one who knows the Atman knows this >purity. However, the> >jnani as transcended morality >altogether. This isn't a license > > Love, > >Dharma > >Namaste Dharma, >It seems to me that the Atman 'knows' >nothing at all, knowing belongs to the area of Saguna Brahman or the >Goddess. Knowing itself is Maya at the universal level and avidya at the >individual.....ONS...Tony. Tony, Are you saying nirguna is 'beyond' Sat Chit Ananada? Being 'knowing >itself' is one definition of consciousness. Otherwise, simply being >unconscious, >as in sedated would be enlightenment. Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: [snip] > Namaste Wim, > > On the advaita path. Hopefully culminating in > Nirguna/Nirvana...After I have cleansed my sheaths > hahahahaha..ONS.Tony. Yes, what you have just said is quite a funny joke. Actually, you are on the path of NonDualThink™, of your own making, and one that has imprisoned you with unsound logic and faulty assumptions, forming an impenetrable barrier of expectation and speculative understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:02:30 -0000 jodyrrr writes: > , "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > > [snip] > > > Namaste Wim, > > > > On the advaita path. Hopefully culminating in > > Nirguna/Nirvana...After I have cleansed my sheaths > > hahahahaha..ONS.Tony. > > Yes, what you have just said is quite a funny joke. > > Actually, you are on the path of NonDualThink™, of your > own making, and one that has imprisoned you with unsound > logic and faulty assumptions, forming an impenetrable > barrier of expectation and speculative understanding. > Iow, Tony, despite your claim of serious sheath cleansing work, you are are essentially a well- read VNDist -- not only did you coin the term, you personify it! http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 > The ineffable Brahman is described as satchitananda in the> Upanishads. Sagauna Brahman has all the attributes of> creation, but the Upanishadic sages have reserved the term> satchitananda for Nirguna Brahman only,> > However, it doesn't surprise me one bit that you feel > yourself qualified to reform the Upanishads. It's a > wonder that just won't cease unfortunately.> > > Even the creation hymn of the Rig Veda, wonders whether God knows or > > doesn't.......ONS......Tony.> > God knows He exists, and that's all He needs to know for the> universe to exist as well.Namaste Jody,Lets have a look at your picture again. You are wearing spiritual dress, indicating religion--dualistic.You are wearing a japamala indication you do japa to a form--dualistic.You are wearing the vaishnava tilaka on your forehead, which indicates again dualism, or worship of vishnu or whatever. Like the Hare Krishna's do, they are also dualistic vaishnavas.There's nothing wrong with that but Nirguna is a different concept and one cannot critique Nirguna from a Saguna aspect.......ONS...Tony. Dear Tony, First, no one is "critiquing" Nirguna, you brought up the discussion of attributes. If Nirguna can even be said to be a concept, then we are back at the level of mind and intellect, aren't we? The question you first raised was about the Absolute knowing itself to exist - but it IS existence itself! If Being shines of itself that is not an attribute of it, it is intrinsic to the nature of Being. Here is how Ramana has explained this. "There Knowing means Being. It is not the relative knowledge of the triads, knowledge, subject, and object." " I am " is God - not thinking "I am God" Realise "I am" and do not think "I am" "Know I am God" - it is said, and not "Think I am God." If you are saying Jody's "attributes" are a barrier, there is the main issue in a nutshell. How can a person even exist at all (here in saguna land) without appearing (to you) to have some attributes? There is the root of the dualism, in your own perception. The jnani is not required to cease bodily existence. That would be like saying Ramana would have to disappear to "qualify" to be realized by your standards. That perception of them as a duality is the ignorance that must go, not the attributes themselves. Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 Good grief, Tony!!! Picking apart someone else's photo? Bashing people on the grounds of appearance?? This is not acceptable behavior in a satsangha. It is not courteous, not loving, just nasty. Oh well, why should I be surprised? >, "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote: > >[snip] > >> Namaste Jody. >> >> From your picture, it looks like you are on the path of Saguna >> Brahman, and this is where my difference are with you and some others >> on here. There is only awareness, as you call it, at the Saguna >> Brahman. > >You never cease to amaze me with your wholly uninformed >pronouncements. > >> Nirguna means what it says, No gunas, no modifications, no >> attributes. > >The ineffable Brahman is described as satchitananda in the >Upanishads. Sagauna Brahman has all the attributes of >creation, but the Upanishadic sages have reserved the term >satchitananda for Nirguna Brahman only, > >However, it doesn't surprise me one bit that you feel >yourself qualified to reform the Upanishads. It's a >wonder that just won't cease unfortunately. > >> Even the creation hymn of the Rig Veda, wonders whether God knows or >> doesn't.......ONS......Tony. > >God knows He exists, and that's all He needs to know for the >universe to exist as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 Hi Glo, >snip< > If you are saying Jody's "attributes" are a barrier, there is the >main issue in a nutshell. How can a person even exist at all (here in >saguna land) without appearing (to you) to have some attributes? There >is the root of the dualism, in your own perception. The jnani is not >required to cease bodily existence. That would be like saying Ramana >would have to disappear to "qualify" to be realized by your >standards. But that's exactly what Tony does think! He's said so many times. He doesn't think anyone here could possibly be a jnani because we're here!! )))))))))) LOL! )))))))))))) Of course, it follows that Tony will never find a real jnani. ) Poor Tony! Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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