Ramakrishna and Saguna/Nirguna Brahman etc.Jody.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Jody et al,

 

As Jody mentioned Ramakrishna, I thought I would revisit some of my

old books on him, from years ago. The first book and the first page I

opened was right on the topic I intended to post on.!!!!!!!?? As Jody

and I had discussed this subject.

 

" I began to meditate on the Primal Purusha, the indivisible

Sat-Cit-Ananda, regarding myself as His handmaiden." p 53 'Visions of

Ramakrishna'.

 

';it was not at all uncommon for Ramakrishna to use terms like this

for the Personal God without form.' ( Saguna Brahman, for impersonal

is Nirguna Brahman.) Swami Yogeshananda.

 

This was prior to the arrival of Tota Puri to the ashram, and

Ramakrishna's first Nirvikalpa Samadhi, where he cut through the image

of Kali to Nirguna Brahman. p55.56.

 

So here we have perhaps the root of the confusion on these concepts on

this list. There is a formless Saguna Brahman with attributes, and

there is the Formless Nirguna Brahman without attributes, according to

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

 

There is no doubt that Ramakrishna in using the term Sat-Cit-Ananda

is refering to Saguna Brahman and not Nirguna Brahman.

 

As a last note. RK saw only the universal as the mind of every

individual, animal and plant when he had particular visions.

 

I also thought his vision of Jesus as being 'fairly complected' with a

slightly flat tip of the nose, was much the same as Cayce describes

Jesus, unlike Yogananda who described him as dark.

 

Om Namah Sivaya......Tony.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Tony,

 

There are quotes galore by many authorities, some even seemingly

self-contradictory. I appreciate that you are trying to be helpful by

clarifying concepts. In "Talks" by Ramana, the index lists several

quotes on each of these topics about the world.

 

15 on reality of

4 on is unreal

14 on is thought

5 on is not seen when Self is seen

9 on perception of after realisation

8 on how to see the world as Brahman

 

Here is a good quote on how it is both unreal and real.

 

a visitor: "The Supreme Spirit (Brahman) is Real. The world (jagat) is

illusion." is the stock phrase of Sankaracharya. Yet others say, "The

world is reality". Which is true?

 

M.(Ramana): Both statements are true. They refer to different stages

of development and are spoken from different points of view. The

aspirant starts with the definition, that which is real exists

always; then he eliminates the world as unreal because it is

changing. It cannot be real; 'not this, not this!' The seeker

ultimately reaches the Self and there finds unity as the prevailing

note. Then, that which was originally rejected as being unreal is

found to be part of the unity. Being absorbed in the Reality, the

world also is Real. There is only Being in Self-Realisation, and

nothing but being.

[Guest guest]

, "Gloria Lee" <glee@i...> wrote:

> Namaste Tony,

>

> There are quotes galore by many authorities, some even seemingly

self-contradictory. I appreciate that you are trying to be helpful by

clarifying concepts. In "Talks" by Ramana, the index lists several

quotes on each of these topics about the world.

>

> 15 on reality of

> 4 on is unreal

> 14 on is thought

> 5 on is not seen when Self is seen

> 9 on perception of after realisation

> 8 on how to see the world as Brahman

>

> Here is a good quote on how it is both unreal and real.

>

> a visitor: "The Supreme Spirit (Brahman) is Real. The world (jagat)

is illusion." is the stock phrase of Sankaracharya. Yet others say,

"The world is reality". Which is true?

>

> M.(Ramana): Both statements are true. They refer to different

stages of development and are spoken from different points of view.

The aspirant starts with the definition, that which is real exists

always; then he eliminates the world as unreal because it is changing.

It cannot be real; 'not this, not this!' The seeker ultimately reaches

the Self and there finds unity as the prevailing note. Then, that

which was originally rejected as being unreal is found to be part of

the unity. Being absorbed in the Reality, the world also is Real.

There is only Being in Self-Realisation, and nothing but being.

 

Namaste Glo,

 

Yes the world is made of the same stuff as dreams but denser and more

longer lasting. Once one gets past it, one can see the heat and the

iron bar are related. All is one Saguna Brahman.

 

Finally that is unreal also, for where is it in sleep and meditation?

 

ONS....Tony.