Guest guest Posted September 4, 2001 Report Share Posted September 4, 2001 Dear Elizabeth, Patrick, Caiti (from the Nisargadatta group) et al. Elizabeth wrote: > How can something come out of nothing? Patrick wrote: > Something did not come out of nothing. > Quite the reverse, nothing > come out of something, namely, God. Elizabeth answered: > Yes. > Defining "God as Ultimate Reality". > And nothing(-) and something(+) as 2 sides > of the same self-canceling coin. With due respect, (and I'm saying this smilingly) "nothing" is not "minus(-)" of course, nothing is... 0, zilch. Nothing does not even exist, and minus even less, except... in the conceptualizing mind. By the way, the terms positive and negative, just like the terms debit and credit were originally mostly applied to 'double entry bookkeeping' as formalized in 1494 by the mathematician Fra Lucas Pacioli 1445-1517 in renaissance Italy. The application of these terms though came to mean a lot in renaissance theology and philosophy where it influenced the understanding of older biblical translations. (E.g. sin, debt, debtor, merit.) http://www-groups.dcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Pacioli.html So... "nothing(-) and something(+) as 2 sides of the same self-canceling coin" is a bit of an odd, erroneous statement not belonging to the topic of "God as Ultimate Reality" at all. So there is no canceling. "God as Ultimate Reality" is something (whatever "something" is) totally different than the opposite of the purely conceptual nothing. Nothing cannot come out of something as nothing does not even exist. Reality is, is is, this is it. "Nothing" is purely conceptual, it has no reality whatsoever. Beware of concepts, they have no substance in reality, they are only conceived by the mind as mnemonic devices to gain understanding of reality. > Leaving "Nothing, > not even the idea of Nothing", > aka "Pure Spirit...the Real Something". There, you came to it yourself, Elizabeth, wonderful... "Pure Spirit," the most concrete ever, and forever. In 'ever'y thing, ("every") and 'ever'ywhere, ("everywhere"). Pure Sprit is concrete, the most specific, the least ambiguous, the most tangible. "Concrete" has no opposite except in the conceptual term "abstract" which is just another mnemonic, purely mental term. Opposites do not even exist; opposites such as "polarities,black and white,hot and cold,up and down" are purely mental constructs, mnemonic tools originally used in science and philosophy, but now, since Einstein, not even tenable anymore. Relativity theory has replaced all that, culminating in gauge field theory. Caiti answered to Patrick: > what you wrote sounds clear. > I *wonder* what is your personal experience, so far? Ah, I like that word "wonder." I just wrote a personal email to someone that I will copy below. Patrick again: > Probably the same as your experience: > that of an earnest student who desires to know God. Yes... ------------------------ Someone asked: > What is enlightenment? Living in wonder. There is no reason to live in wonder, As one needs no reason to live in wonder. There is no reason "not to live in wonder." As one does not need a reason "not to live in wonder." Reasoning hides wonder. Reasoning wastes time... Time to wonder. Anything shines the light of the miraculous. When one wonders, one lives in and from that light, When one wonders, one shines forth that light. Never wonder *why* anything is... Just wonder *that* anything is... One does not wonder why... One is in wonder that... Even when one sees war or pain or hunger or suffering, one remains in wonder... Right action will follow... There is no way of knowing what right action is... Just wonder and right action follows... When there is war or pain or hunger or suffering and one wonders *why*... right action will *not* follow. Questioning is wasting of time... It prevents or holds one back from right action... Whatever right action is! We have no way of knowing what right action is. > And am I enlightened????? Be in wonder that you are!!!!!! > And really, is there such a thing? Just wonder that there is anything at all... --------------------- Love, Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release 8/7/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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